another newbie, hull #12502

Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
here's the 5 month winter plan in no apparent order, but critical/most difficult items first (keel for example), after reading 7 years of excellent forum threads...open to suggestions...
I am making some notes on each item for you...
Mastup (buy or build), usually more cost effective to just buy a new one than the time invested in making one. Try to find a used one if possible. If you are welder you can make one pretty cheap with scrap material.
Keel refurbish; your keel looks pretty good but your pics are at a distance. Having your Pole Barn and Tractor puts you at a huge advantage. This is the best investment you can make in ensuring a long life for your keel.
Keel kit from CD; you mean the hardware like keel hangers and pin or the centering kit? hardware, yes, centering kit, no... You can make better spacers out scrap glass matt/cloth and epoxy.
Bottom paint; just choose one that is good for your waters but also does not degrade in open air and is hard enough to withstand the trailer bunks (so a soft ablative is not a good choice)
Hull – sand/compound/buff/wax; yes! Got a compressor with a big tank? DA sanders are air hogs. If you don't have a DA sander buy a reasonably priced one, you only need 400 and 600 grit wet paper, but going the extra mile with 800 or even to 1000 is overkill but might have super results if you have the time to do all hat sanding.
Replace all running rigging; in the spring, usually before or on Memorial day weekend, West Marine Does a 40% off bulk rope sale. get on the email list for sales flyers. Do the same for Defender.com, they have good everyday prices and sale prices too.
Run all lines aft; my thread has lots of info on this, it will have more as I get to rigging my boat. Keep in mind you might have to loose the hand-rails to make room for the lines.
Tiller tamer
Replace standing rigging as necessary; again, I'll have more info on this if you want to go with Dyneema. Stingy Sailor has a good article about wire rigging on his blog/website.
Upgrade seal chainplates; The new style CD chainplates with welded collars, yes... They are really good.
Re-bed all deck hdwr; Get Butyl Tape from Mainsail's website.
Replace/reinforce bow eye; get the new one from Catalina Direct, the bow shield is a nice addition but not required.
Upgrade rudder gudgeons & pintels
Add midships cleats
Install mastgates
Topping lift you can also try a Boom Kicker or a rigid Vang. JMO, a topping lift adds too much crap to the end of the boom and all rigging in general.
Move/upgrade electrical panel; My thread has an example of this. There are simpler methods of installation, but install in that general area.
Add depth finder/compass/radio; watch for sales and rebates on VHF radios. I got a $40 rebate when I got my Standard Horizon VHF. Lots of slightly used handhelds on eBay.
Replace canvas (poptop/companionway); keep an eye on Craigslist for used industrial type sewing machine. I got a German made machine that is all metal, no plastic for less than $200. Learn to sew, it will save you hundreds if not thousands over your boating lifetime.
Replace poptop mechanism w/gas shocks; Stingy Sailor has an article on the horizon about this, read that when it comes out before you by the CD kit. I hope I just didn't give away any classified info!
Isolate/vent gas tank locker; this is hard to do and not totally necessary. Making a divider is easy, making fit it the area you intend to isolate is a royal pain.... trust me. When you stick your head below in the port cockpit seat you will understand why. My solution is to place my 3 gallon tank under the tiller. No one really should have their feet there anyway.
Fabricate mini-galley of some sort for Admiral
Table rebuild
Replace lights w/LED’s, rewire as necessary; good idea... See Stingy Sailor article on LED strip lights.
Refinish exterior teak. I got rid of all my teak, went to white plastic. You gotta love teak and varnishing if you want to keep up with it.
Install pushpit rail magma grille
 
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May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
Cloud Diver...first, thx so much for taking the time to reply to this! I've followed all your threads and replys to others, all excellent and they have really helped my learning curve, you do excellent work and are most knowledgeable, really appreciate all you've shared.

I've replied to your reply below in CAPS only to make them stand out (not shouting!) (click to expand...)

Thanks again, I will post updates as I dig into all this in the fall..

Best,
Ron


I am making some notes on each item for you...
Mastup (buy or build), usually more cost effective to just buy a new one than the time invested in making one. Try to find a used one if possible. If you are welder you can make one pretty cheap with scrap material. AGREE GONNA BUY
Keel refurbish; your keel looks pretty good but your pics are at a distance. Having your Pole Barn and Tractor puts you at a huge advantage. This is the best investment you can make in ensuring a long life for your keel. AGREE
Keel kit from CD; you mean the hardware like keel hangers and pin or the centering kit? hardware, yes, centering kit, no... You can make better spacers out scrap glass matt/cloth and epoxy. YES, AND AGREE
Bottom paint; just choose one that is good for your waters but also does not degrade in open air and is hard enough to withstand the trailer bunks (so a soft ablative is not a good choice) GONNA NEED ADVICE, FRESH h2o
Hull – sand/compound/buff/wax; yes! Got a compressor with a big tank? DA sanders are air hogs. If you don't have a DA sander buy a reasonably priced one, you only need 400 and 600 grit wet paper, but going the extra mile with 800 or even to 1000 is overkill but might have super results if you have the time to do all hat sanding. AGREE, HAVE ONE
Replace all running rigging; in the spring, usually before or on Memorial day weekend, West Marine Does a 40% off bulk rope sale. get on the email list for sales flyers. Do the same for Defender.com, they have good everyday prices and sale prices too. EXCELLENT ADVICE
Run all lines aft; my thread has lots of info on this, it will have more as I get to rigging my boat. Keep in mind you might have to loose the hand-rails to make room for the lines. AGREE, ALTHOUGH DID SEE A NICE JOB OF ONE KEEPING HAND RAILS, HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT AND GET YOUR ADVICE
Tiller tamer
Replace standing rigging as necessary; again, I'll have more info on this if you want to go with Dyneema. Stingy Sailor has a good article about wire rigging on his blog/website. WHAT EXISTS IS IN GREAT SHAPE, BUT PROBABLY WOULD BE PRUDENT TO REPLACE 32 YR OLD STANDING RIGGING, IMO....
Upgrade seal chainplates; The new style CD chainplates with welded collars, yes... They are really good. AGREE
Re-bed all deck hdwr; Get Butyl Tape from Mainsail's website. YUP
Replace/reinforce bow eye; get the new one from Catalina Direct, the bow shield is a nice addition but not required. WAS THINKING THAT, BUT WTH AS I WILL HAVE COME THIS FAR!
Upgrade rudder gudgeons & pintels
Add midships cleats
Install mastgates
Topping lift you can also try a Boom Kicker or a rigid Vang. JMO, a topping lift adds too much crap to the end of the boom and all rigging in general. GOOD ADVICE, I NEED TO STUDY UP ON THIS...
Move/upgrade electrical panel; My thread has an example of this. There are simpler methods of installation, but install in that general area. YUP
Add depth finder/compass/radio; watch for sales and rebates on VHF radios. I got a $40 rebate when I got my Standard Horizon VHF. Lots of slightly used handhelds on eBay. HAVE A NEW HANDHELD FROM PWR BOAT
Replace canvas (poptop/companionway); keep an eye on Craigslist for used industrial type sewing machine. I got a German made machine that is all metal, no plastic for less than $200. Learn to sew, it will save you hundreds if not thousands over your boating lifetime. WELL, MAYBE...GOOD ADVICE!
Replace poptop mechanism w/gas shocks; Stingy Sailor has an article on the horizon about this, read that when it comes out before you by the CD kit. I hope I just didn't give away any classified info! THX FOR THAT TIP!
Isolate/vent gas tank locker; this is hard to do and not totally necessary. Making a divider is easy, making fit it the area you intend to isolate is a royal pain.... trust me. When you stick your head below in the port cockpit seat you will understand why. My solution is to place my 3 gallon tank under the tiller. No one really should have their feet there anyway. GOOD, WASN'T LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS!
Fabricate mini-galley of some sort for Admiral
Table rebuild
Replace lights w/LED’s, rewire as necessary; good idea... See Stingy Sailor article on LED strip lights. YUP
Refinish exterior teak. I got rid of all my teak, went to white plastic. You gotta love teak and varnishing if you want to keep up with it. I'M NOT SURE ON THIS ONE YET, BEING A WOODWORKER, EZE FOR ME, BUT IT GETS OLD FAST!
Install pushpit rail magma grille
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
For Bottom paint, I used the Interlux Micron CF (Copper Free). Its black and dries hard(ish), stands up to loading and unloading from trailer, does not degrade in open air. Not sure yet about its 'performance' as far as keeping marine growth off better or worse than other bottom paints but never heard any complaints either. You are in fresh water so it will be far less of a hassle for you. The power boaters down here use the CF because 1) at the higher speeds of power boats it does not wear away as quickly as a soft ablative, and 2) They like black, lol.
 
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Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Refinish exterior teak. I got rid of all my teak, went to white plastic. You gotta love teak and varnishing if you want to keep up with it. I'M NOT SURE ON THIS ONE YET, BEING A WOODWORKER, EZE FOR ME, BUT IT GETS OLD FAST!
I'm almost finished redoing the teak on our C22 with Epifanes Varnish.
Since I don't live in the south, with a simple yearly touchup, and a cover over the cabin top, it should last a long time.

If it ever needs stripping and refinishing, I'll likely use oil.
It only takes a few minutes to oil all the teak on a C22. it may not be as shiny, but it's quicker and helps replenish the oil so the wood doesn't dry out.

IMO removing teak from a boat is like removing the chrome from a 50's car. ;)
(That said, my dream sailboat would be metal and rugged, for high latitudes :) )
 
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May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
upload_2016-8-9_14-50-7.jpeg
guys, forgot to mention, we have one of these in the barn...don't know why it can't be adapted to pick up the transom and use the tractor/forks/sling for the bow...should simplify bottom work & keel even further...
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
"IMO removing teak from a boat is like removing the chrome from a 50's car. ;)"

LRail...that being the case I many go starboard and do it ONCE as cloud diver recommends...
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
cloud diver....here's the pdf I referenced, regarding lines running aft and retaining handrails, courtesy of Chris here on the forum....thoughts?
 

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Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
rpludwig, post: 1315247, member: 134493"]cloud diver....here's the pdf I referenced, regarding lines running aft and retaining handrails, courtesy of Chris here on the forum....thoughts?

That is a pretty good set up if you want to keep your stock handrails, it will work. Only draw back is that it restricts you to 2 lines per side (the Jib Sheets don't count, they are set up that way on the genoa track blocks normally). I set mine up for 3 lines per side with extra cabin top winches. In the example provided there are no winches, the lines would be led from the double clutch to the primary winch for tensioning. This could be messy only in the case the winch is already occupied with the Jib sheet under tension and cleated off.
You have time to think about it... really a C22 can get away with 4 lines led aft. 6 just gives you more options and cabin top winches let you mess with those 6 lines while your primary sheet winch might be in use at the time. If you want to add cabin top winches but keep your teak handrails, you can create more room by cutting off the last loop of the handrail and the moving the clutch forward, placing a #6 winch where the clutches are mounted now.[/QUOTE]
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
View attachment 126650guys, forgot to mention, we have one of these in the barn...don't know why it can't be adapted to pick up the transom and use the tractor/forks/sling for the bow...should simplify bottom work & keel even further...
That is awesome, it will make lifting off the trailer super easy. Just be very careful how you set it up, make sure you have some kind of cradle that holds the transom or heavy tow straps properly secured. I used cherry pickers, manual operation but got the job done. This will make all that bottom work and the keel job SO much easier! Please post pics when you do this.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
I've got access to a 2 post lift and I've been wondering if I could use it, alone, to lift the boat.

Wouldn't they possibly work with straps run between the arms which could be extended somewhat parallel to the hull ?

Since the arms are designed to lock simply to prevent them from moving while the load is straight downward, I'd wonder about a way to secure them from moving with a load that is angled towards the hull ?


Or....put pads on the ends of the arms so they can rest on the side of the hull without damaging it, while straps run underneath ?
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
Cloud Diver...did some reading on the boom kicker, that seems to be the best route and I agree, less crap the better at the end of the boom...my question on that (or a rigid vang) is how to deal with the poptop at the dock, guess you simply disconnect the kicker at the mast and hang the boom on the pigtail? Make sense or am I missing something?

LRail...not yet sure how to make the best use of the rotary lift, but I don't see a way to lift the entire boat with it.....just thinking the transom alone w/slings attached to the lift arms...still pondering this...
 

dzl

.
Jun 23, 2016
159
Catalina 22 Trailer
My brother just bought a c-22 and he has a two post lift also. My thought was to make two beams out of lumber with cradles on top to keep the hull in place and simply run the beams across a head and behind the bunks on the trailer and set them on the lift arms. Up she goes... Or not?
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
My brother just bought a c-22 and he has a two post lift also. My thought was to make two beams out of lumber with cradles on top to keep the hull in place and simply run the beams across a head and behind the bunks on the trailer and set them on the lift arms. Up she goes... Or not?
I was thinking about the same idea last night. That would allow the arms to be extended fully so that they are as far forward + backward as possible, while applying the lifting load to the arms vertically as they were designed to do.
The question is, if the arms are fully extended, will they clear the trailer bunks and keep the boat level.
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
LR....doubtful, they won't extend far enough to span the bunks...maybe can McIver something...
 
Last edited:
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
When any of you guys use a two post lift on a C22; I can't stress enough to be careful! Rig something stable and test it under controlled conditions with back-ups! Test it several times... The reason I say this is because when I first pulled my C22 out of the water with a crane (with the keel stuck in the down position) it wasn't easy to find the center gravity of the hull. C22's are transom heavy, so the motor needs to be off at the minimum. I used two 30 ft heavy tow straps attached to an 8 ton shackle, basically in a self equalizing configurations. The crane hook was as centered over the hull as possible and the straps spread out as far as possible. On the first test lift the bow dipped, not even lifted fully out of the water to see the state of balance. Nylon webbing was used to pull the fore strap even father forward to balance the load. It worked, but the whole process had some serious 'pucker factor'. I really wish I had taken pictures.
Anyway, I think the safest alternative is to use a two post lift just to lift the transom, and a cherry picker would hook the bow eye... This configuration would make on/off the trailer an easy operation and give nearly 100% access to the bottom for sanding/painting. Using the two-post lift alone to pick up the hull sounds interesting, but could be dangerous if it isn't executed properly.
 
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May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
cloud....good input and agree...and given that I also have the tractor/forks, my current thought is as yours....lift the transom w/the rotary lift, lift the bow with tractor, from the bow eye WITH a backup sling aft of the bow eye, i.e. two lifting points on the bow one on each fork since they span about 3-4', and coming in from the side of the bow with the tractor, if that makes sense....pull the trailer and set it all down on a yet to be made cradle....may put some heavy duty casters on the cradle to move it around the barn and out from under the rotary lift as well...just the current plan, may change some as I get closer, we don't need any puckering!...
 
Jun 28, 2016
334
Hunter 23.5 Paupack, PA
That's an aggressive list for sure. To get the keel work started, can you just unbolt the bracket, back her in the water, and float the ship off? That would be awesome, then you could just tow the damn thing to the sandblaster right on the trailer.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
That's an aggressive list for sure. To get the keel work started, can you just unbolt the bracket, back her in the water, and float the ship off? That would be awesome, then you could just tow the damn thing to the sandblaster right on the trailer.
Believe it or not, floating the hull off the trailer is actually more work with driving time, etc. Also, unless you already rent a slip, there is cost for keeping the hull in the water while you work the keel. plus, I wouldn't want my hull in the water without the keel, even with the rig down it will sit super high off the water line and bob like a cork. It just ends up being more of a pain than its worth.
There are other advantages to besides keel work to pulling the hull off trailer and onto stands... bottom work. Everyone has to bottom paint eventually, so unless you'd rather pay $800 to $1500 you need a system to do it. Remember, these guys in the convo above already have the post-lifts and tractor they are talking about... so we aren't saying everyone should run out and buy the same. Use the assets you have. For anyone else, this is easily accomplished with a cherry picker you pick up on Craigslist for $100 or less, boat stands which can also be purchased used, or a self built cradle.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Luke, that's a very good point.

Even assuming that using the two post lift alone works well, it has the disadvantage of restricting access to the same section of hull that is held by the bunks on the trailer. Not much help if you want to sand + paint the hull while the keel is off the boat.