And so it begins

Discussion in 'Bigger Boats' started by 25yearslater, Sep 28, 2010. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    So begins perhaps the most quixotic endeavor thus far. What might that be? An undoing of 34 years of some mighty absurd ideas of what a boat should and shouldn't be. Finally Yot is sitting along side my home thanks in no small way to Lockview Marine and Boat Transport. Yes, that is the boats' official name, YOT. It's my boat and I'll call it anything I please even to the chagrin of the crew, one of which has threatened mutiny already. Anyhow the stripping of the cabin has commenced. Hull liner-gone. Cushions-gone. Everything coming out up to and including the carpenty. Not the main bulkhead that's just fine. Instruments-gone. Rolly furly-gone. Gallons upon gallons of epoxy here. Tech note - this Oday 27 has a .187 inch outer deck skin and .375 inch balsa core. All measurements +/-.005 inch. Balsa 80 square feet due in tomorrow, 14 yards 18oz knytex 0-90 biax and another 14 yards +/-45 12oz knytex due Friday. Colodial silica here 404 filler here. Various rollers, spreaders, brushes, nitrile gloves, mixing bowls, pumps, and lets not forget the 14 or so yards of Outdura fabric for the hull liner. So call me nuts but this boat is going back to 76 when it was shipped new from Oday. And last but not least 2 gallons of RTV urethane to capture the original non skid deck as a mold for the new deck. Even the cushion fabric is selected and comes very close to an original Oday fabric. On the plus side somebody in its' history had the presence of mind to epoxy coat the bottom. Not a blister on it. :eek:
     

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  2. nightowle

    nightowle

    Joined Aug 28, 2006
    300 posts, 53 likes
    Bavaria 35E
    US seattle
    fellow 27 owner

    I'm gonna LOVE watching this project unfold. Post lots 'o pics. But why in heavens recover the settees in 1970's herculon looking fabric. That stuff was fugly and scratchy!! Lots of better material available now. Just my opinion, but hope it's tooooooo much like the original. I was also happy to see upon my first haul out that I had no blisters. O'Day certainly did that right!
     


  3. kpgraci

    kpgraci

    Joined Jun 12, 2010
    930 posts, 3 likes
    Oday 22
    US South Shore Harbor, NOLA
    I like the name. YOT. Yeah...love it. ;)
     


  4. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    You got it Nightowle. As much as this will be an adventure for those who follow along, I hope it will also serve as an online database for those who may be contemplating a similar endeavor. In addition, in the event my computer melts down the info will still be available to me so I can get it all back together. Pictures will be coming on the weekends as the nuisance of working a full time job interferes with my messing about with boats. I will even share the blunders and will gladly accept the criticisms as perhaps we can all learn something along the way. Now for tonights festivities which were, get the mast off the top. 3 reasonably husky lads and the mooring lines and lower it to the ground. About 100 pounds give or take. A chain link fence is a mighty handy mast rack with a few binders to hang it from the top rails. Remove the port settee back. Lastly, the horror stories of hull liner foam, mostly true, however a standard welders wire brush makes quick work of it without the flying dust inherent with power tools. Time to clean foam from quarter berth forward to bulkhead, 30 minutes. Use long slow strokes and the brush chews right through it. Thanks for the vote on the name kpgraci. Young son is still threatening mutiny though. Take care everybody.
     


  5. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Wire brush, bronze wool, Citristrip Adhesive Remover and elbow grease, going, going, gone. The foam is easy, the adhesive not so much but less than horrible. Clean up with soap and water. I'll let the pictures do the talking.
     

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  6. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Discovery day. I haven't seen this posted before but perhaps it should be. By removing the deck waste pumpout fitting, the mysteries of Oday are becoming clear. The two attached pictures show the deck outer laminate, the rotted core, the deck inner laminate and the inner liner. This would preclude an inside repair to a deck core as it would also entail cutting out the inner liner. This arrangement can be seen in the forepeak by looking in through the opening in the panel.
     

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  7. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Well, rain, rain and more rain. My living room has become a warehouse of boat building stuff. Fortunately for me my wife of 25 years has always been willing to indulge my eccentricities. The deck has been stripped of all it's hardware and Yot is tucked safely under a frame and tarp. With all the holes in the deck from various gadgetry it is a sure fire way to create bigger problems with water migration and the not to distant chilly weather. Note: halfway between Buffalo and Rochester, NY. Hah-rers, the nonskid pattern was apparently molded into the gelcoat and then a coloring overspray applied by Oday. The result is a depth of imprint of between .003 and .005 inches, (yes I'm fanatical enough to have used one of my dial indicators) which doesn't transfer to the proposed molding agent. No worries on to plan B. Hello Mas epoxies and the Gibco Flex Mold. One good thing about lousy weather is it gives you time to make very accurate drawings of the boat at various points along the length. It also gives you a reason to poke about to learn more about any and everything that might be wrong like the previously thought bulkhead has 1" of rot along the bottom concealed by the trim. Score one for a professional surveyor that really knows their stuff. Again no worries there are plenty of high quality wood working shops that can make two pieces of 1/2" teak plywood look like one piece. A discerning eye for the grain will conceal the actual joint. So a few setbacks, but ya gotta expect em when dealing with a boat this age. This weekend get ready for the deck cutting pics and balsa core exposed.
     


  8. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Today begins the scratching like a dog at a flea convention. Yes the deck is being opened on the port side. I will be doing one side at a time just in case any measurement or pattern is incorrect. Score one for the digital calipers. If you are wondering how I ascertained the thickness of the deck skins and core thickness without removing anything it is actually quite easy. With a bunch of holes in the deck a few screws can be removed and a light scraping with a dental type pick of the balsa and the following procedure yields remarkably accurate results. Insert the handle of the pick untill it contacts the bottom of the outer skin. This is why the core material was removed from the edge of the hole. Using the depth blade of the verniers adjust down until the pick handle is contacted. The reading is your skin thickness. A helper to insert the pick from below is really handy. Next adjust the depth blade down to the top of the inner skin. Subtract the first reading from the second and viola you have your core thickness. This was helpful in estimating the cost of the repair before a single thing happened. I have attached some photos of the guide fence for the router which provides a very accurate and smooth cut to the exact depth of the skin. There is also a photo of first piece out which is saturated as is most of the deck. In another segment I will explain why I am leaving what seems to be a very large margin along the edges. Enjoy.
     

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  9. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    :snooty:Tonights photos show what happens to your core when it gets wet. And a special photo for nightowle. It seems the Oday 27 has 3/8 inch plywood in the foredeck for a distance of 40 inches measured from the bow, aft not including the rubrail. On the plus side the core removes very easily. Once I cleared the remaining core from under the ledges the nonskid pattern is as far as the core extends laterally.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  10. SailingCal21

    SailingCal21

    Joined May 30, 2006
    261 posts, 4 likes
    Oday 34
    US Chesapeake Bay
    Great pics and info, keep 'em coming.

    Any tips for getting the lifeline stanchions off?
     


  11. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Hi there SailingCal21. Not sure where my original nuts went for the lifeline stantions on the inboard screws. Probably the nether reaches of the liner/inner skin gap. As you can see in the foam removal post there is a cutout made in the liner to access the outboard screws. Not sure of the rational for that because a standard box wrench will reach these quite easily with a bit of manual dexterity. The inboard nuts are within the inner skin/liner tabbing. I will do some investigating this weekend as I am curious as to how to retrieve the nuts that were abandoned. There is a 1/4" gap where the nuts were so I'll look at a way that the tabbing can be cut to access them. I'm thinking an inexpensive 7/16 open end wrench bent at an 80 degree angle might just do the trick for holding them. I'll do some experimenting on Yot since most everything at this point is opened up to inspection. In other news a big thank you to Mary Anne McFarland GM of MAS Epoxies. They are a distributor of the Gibco Flex Mold nonskid patterns. After a brief description of the original pattern I recieved a small sample of Pattern 312 the Oday Rope Weave that was the original nonskid pattern on Yot. The detail is astounding right down to the three threads on the high points and the little dot at the low points. For those considering hardware bonding to keep your core dry, McMaster-Carr an industrial supply company that also sells to the public has 18-8 stainless steel tee nuts that would anchor well into the bedding material and eliminate through bolts. West Systems, How to's has an excellent description of the process. So long for now.
     


  12. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Well today marked a milestone of sorts. The port side has been stripped of it's balsa core. I've attached a couple photos of the tools for reaching under the laminate and removing the balsa completely. The hook is just a piece of 3/8 inch 1018 cold rolled steel. Earlier I reported the bow as having 1/2 plywood. this was incorrect and I have corrected that post. What I was seeing was a less than perfect transition between the plywood and the balsa. The mystery material located imbedded in the headliner just below the chainplates is some type of awful smelling plastic. Wiggly lower shroud chainplates are an indication of something amiss with this "bonding" material. The up side is it is easily removed with a router. The downside, go too deep and the bit will contact the stainless and dull it pretty good and quick. The copper lightning wire also passes through the chainplate. On the subject of accessing the stantion inboard bolts, I was able to reach the skin/liner tabbing by inserting a piece of 2X4 between the hull and liner. This provided me with enough room to insert my right angled die grinder into the area wher when I get the right burr I'll give it a try but at this point I am encouraged.
     

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  13. rajhnsn

    rajhnsn

    Joined Oct 7, 2008
    326 posts, 6 likes
    Oday Oday 35
    US Chesapeake Bay
    What do you plan to cover the inside side of the hull with? Are you going to insulate?
     


  14. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    The first mate of Yot has mutinied and taken command of this post. :hijacked:
    Here's a photo of why using the inner liner is a bad idea. Notice with the chainplate and "material" removed, the gap between the inner skin and liner is more apparent. The liner offers little if any structural component.
     

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  15. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Well with the little scalawag consigned to the bilges, and I back in command the answer is to rajhnsn's question is Outdura vinyl in sand color. I will be using a two step process of using adhesive to attach a 1/4 inch foam to the hull and then the fabric. The foam is mildew and fire resistant. While not an exact Oday match it is very close to the color and texture of the original hull liner. I'll be posting pictures of that process as I go.
     


  16. rajhnsn

    rajhnsn

    Joined Oct 7, 2008
    326 posts, 6 likes
    Oday Oday 35
    US Chesapeake Bay
    Previous owner of Graceful-lee finished the inside walls in light ash panals. I think it is insulated as well. It has added value to the boat.
     


  17. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Well the weather has taken a turn for the chilly with frost Friday night and a low temp of 30. So some final prep work and an order for 205 fast hardener as epoxy is super temperature sensitive. I am currently looking in to ways to heat the work area without outgassing which is also a concern. After my correspondence with the good folks at West Systems it seems Biaxials are almost resistant to any other hardener than 206 which allows for good wetout. The balsa, no big deal. Anyway, drum roll please and cymbal clash. After much head scratching and hole drilling the answer to Cal21s question is: Yes the stantion nuts can be accessed without to much trouble or cutting holes in the liner. Now I have the advantage of having a previous owner butcher the liner but it offered the opportunity to explore ways to get to those little rascals. While my equipment is more atuned to brain surgery with a pick axe, there are smaller grinders (while pricey) that would offer a more precise feel. The other essential is an inspection mirror or two. By inserting the burr of the grinder into the tabbing it is easily cut away without compromising the inner skin or liner. The liner can be wedged out a substantial amount for easier access. Practice with the grinder off to get the feel of it by sliding up the liner and into the tabbing gap. I have attached some photos to better illustrate with the gap showing the approximate angles involved. With an open end wrench bent to about 80 to 90 degrees (cheap thin ones) the nuts can be held. A small wire hook can be used to withdraw the nuts from their hidden lair. On another issue, that sounds awesome rajhnsn. Could you post a photo or two? I am heading in a bit different direction however by trying to recreate a 1976 Oday 27 to it's virtual original condition albiet with newer more resilient materials and techniques. And if anyone wants to, my name is Joe if that makes it easier.
     

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  18. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Well by now those who are following along are probably convinced I'm certifiable. So tonights post regards gadgets and moldmaking. As I pondered the balsa insertion under the ledges and practiced with inserting it I realized I was less than certain it had reached the edge of the envelope. A suggestion by the mate was regarding a pattern. A brief discussion ensued and we came up with the contraption that looks like a primative comb. Much like a carpenters gauge the 1/8 inch dowels slide through the 1X2 pine upon contacting the envelope edge. It is a simple process to transfer the profile to the balsa and cut it to the exact shape. Our second segment involves creating a mold to imprint the gelcoat on the myriad of holes in the cabin liner. Step 1 involves creating an impression of a good area of the liner pattern. A chunk of board of any type stiff enough not to distort when pressure is applied to the back will do. A few cans of craft dough (not playdough) for a dollar is handy for the FEMALE mold. Roll out about 1/4 inch on the board and firmly press to a flat liner surface that has been coated with a release agent. With the female mold build an edging 1/4 to 3/8 high with the other can of dough and coat with the release agent. Pour in enough molten parafin to create a MALE mold about 1/4 inch thick or better. Wait for it to solidify and throw it in your freezer. When cold and hard peel away the edging and lift the parafin mold. Build edging around the parafin and coat with release agent. Pour in your rubber and wait 24 hours for the rubber to cure. Tomorrow I'll post the finished mold ready for some patch work. See ya later - Joe
     

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  19. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    As promised here is the finished mold. Once the final cure has been reached, approx 4 days I will begin imprinting some of the holes in the cabin liner. We'll have to wait till then to see if this is a colossal success or blunder.
     

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  20. 25yearslater

    25yearslater

    Joined Aug 20, 2010
    1,399 posts, 86 likes
    Oday 27
    US Oak Orchard
    Well the mold worked, yet the application technique left a bit to be desired. I am currently experimenting with adding fillers to the Bondo to achieve a sharper pattern. Without filler the depth of imprint was satisfactory but the problem may have been in trying to overprint the existing pattern. Will try an approach similar to the Flex Mold approach. In other news the first of the Balsa core has been installed under the port outboard ledge. West epoxy is a dream to work with if a bit messy. Once the cured state is reached I am going a different way by routing steps the depth of each cloth layer instead of the standard taper method but, and this is big, I will be maintaining an overall 12/1 ratio. I'm hoping this will make the fairing process a little less tedious. I'll get the pictures up as soon as everything is prepped.
     




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