Am I Jinxed?

[topcat0399]

3 Experiances buying sails, new and used from 3 vendors.

All three customer service fails.

New main and Genny: Order "slipped through cracks", was delayed for months, mainsail has wrong "number" on it in HUGE font. They built a genny that is too big that I HATE using.
Good quality product.

Used headsail: When received the dimensions were a couple of feet OFF from the listing. Too big. Contacted seller who promised to make it right through several emails and phone calls. Then he stopped responding. I sent the sail back un-requested and eventually had to charge back through the credit card (which the vendor did not dispute thankfully even though the charge back was for more than I paid).

Current fiasco: Spinnaker. They sent a turtle bag and marked it all as "complete" shipment" in their system unknown to me. 4 weeks later I call and ask and its another "oops". So they get the sail sent with another....TURTLE BAG. Its supposed to be a spinnaker sock.

So disappointed in all of this.

 

[StargazerP303]

No, you're not Jinxed! this seems to be the norm with company's today.
Sorry to hear this, However, could you please send me a PM as to who it was so I/WE know who to avoid in the future. There are a lot of good sailmakers out there that know good customer service.
good luck, Capt. Rob

 

[NYSail]

What I have learned is use a local guy and don’t pay the balance until he brings the sail to the boat and puts it on to ensure a good fit. Plus the obvious get EVERYTHING in writing down to the basic requests....

Greg

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Here's an idea,

I needed a new 155 headsail. After getting a bunch of $$ quotes,
I came across Rolley Tasker sails. An Auzzi America's Cup racer who has a big sail loft
in Thailand. The sail I received @ a very affordable price was made
very well & exactly to my specifications. You may want to check him out:

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hp..0.0l5.0.0.0.11925...........0.AgATXacEgUo

 

[dlochner]

There are good sailmakers out there. Rolly Tasker has a good reputation, Mack Sails has a good reputation. Over the past couple of years I've ordered a new Genoa and Main from Great Circle Sails and have been pleased with Brian's service.

Don't rely on a loft's advertising and marketing, ask around for recommendations. For mail order lofts, a good clue about their competence is the instructions they provide for measuring the sail. Good clear instructions are essential. Do the measurements carefully and don't rely on published info from the manufacturer or sailboatdata.com.

 

[RoyS]

Not just sails. Consider, everybody out there is smoking pot. Many businesses hire the cheapest help they can find and put them in a warehouse environment on the night shift with poor supervision to ship products. Not only is their work product defective, they drive to work stoned. Drug abuse is ruining our country.

 

[topcat0399]

What I have learned is use a local guy and don’t pay the balance until he brings the sail to the boat and puts it on to ensure a good fit. Plus the obvious get EVERYTHING in writing down to the basic requests....

Greg

One of MY mistakes I guess for the new sails - paying in full up front. I have to stop doing that.

The nearest "local guy" to landlocked central Wisconsin is several hundred miles away. Otherwise I would do exactly that.
As far as in writing - the quotes and measurement forms and emails had all of the relevant details covered. Its like they don't read their own orders.

 

[topcat0399]

There are good sailmakers out there. Rolly Tasker has a good reputation, Mack Sails has a good reputation. Over the past couple of years I've ordered a new Genoa and Main from Great Circle Sails and have been pleased with Brian's service.

Don't rely on a loft's advertising and marketing, ask around for recommendations. For mail order lofts, a good clue about their competence is the instructions they provide for measuring the sail. Good clear instructions are essential. Do the measurements carefully and don't rely on published info from the manufacturer or sailboatdata.com.

Unfortunately the sail maker that caused me the biggest headache comes highly recommended on this forum. That's why I chose them. I admire that persons knowledge and but they did not live up to the promises made on their website. Practically no consult was done with me and I have a product that I despise. I really hate having to say that.

I will definitely be looking at your recommendations for the next new sail I buy.

 

[topcat0399]

Not just sails. Consider, everybody out there is smoking pot. Many businesses hire the cheapest help they can find and put them in a warehouse environment on the night shift with poor supervision to ship products. Not only is their work product defective, they drive to work stoned. Drug abuse is ruining our country.

I don't know about that. I smoke a little weed sometimes - doesn't make me make a monster. My Dad drank himself to death so....

 

[topcat0399]

No, you're not Jinxed! this seems to be the norm with company's today.
Sorry to hear this, However, could you please send me a PM as to who it was so I/WE know who to avoid in the future. There are a lot of good sailmakers out there that know good customer service.
good luck, Capt. Rob

I will pm you the info as you have asked.

Could it be that I am just such a small fish that these companies
don't put as much effort into the account because the BIG fish matter more?
Is that it? If that's the case, what happens when I become a big fish?

 

[StargazerP303]

I will pm you the info as you have asked.

Could it be that I am just such a small fish that these companies
don't put as much effort into the account because of the BIG fish matter more?
Is that it? If that's the case, what happens when I become a big fish?

I don't know about being a BIG sale or SMALL sale! To a company, a sale is a sale!
Did you contact Judy B Sail and tell her your situation? If so what was her response? No one should have this problem especially the big and wrong numbers. If it was my company I would have built you a new sail correctly and reship asap with a NO CHARGE stamped all over it. I was the CEO of worldwide ICON, so I know good business and manufacturing practices. Capt. Rob

 

[DrJudyB]

Topcat,

All three customer service fails.

New main and Genny: Order "slipped through cracks", was delayed for months, mainsail has wrong "number" on it in HUGE font. They built a genny that is too big that I HATE using.
Good quality product.

You initially placed the order in December 22, 2015, our slowest period and the time with the shortest lead times and we charge you a 10% deposit You sent us the first set of measurements April 25th, 2016. That is our busiest period, with a two or three month lead time. Sail making is a very seasonal business. If you order in late spring, you usually don't get your sails until late summer. That's the reason for the longer lead time.

Now, I will add that we shut down for two weeks in July, becauswe my husband's father became ill in mid-July and then passed away, We went to southern California to take care of him for two weeks. But I honestly have to say that the long lead time was due to the measurements being submitted during the busy season, 5 months later than they were due.

I had no idea we put the wrong sail numbers on your mainsail. I just reviewed all the emails from you and I can't find ANY correspondence from you about sail numbers for the mainsail.

I’m sorry you don’t like using the genoa you ordered, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. We sent you the final dimensions before we started construction, and you approved them. And we told you where to install the track because you didn't have any for the genoa. I don't have any correspondence from you about a problem with the genoa either.

Please contact me off list me about the mainsail numbers. It's easy to remove and replace them.
judy@hydesailsdirect.com


Judy

 

[DrJudyB]

Tom,

Why do you hate the 115% genoa? Please constact me off list about that.
Judy

 

[Benny17441]

That is like buying clothing online. Receive, try on send back.

 

[Jackdaw]

Not related to the above, but I recently fired my long-time sail maker.

A relationship with a distant sailmaker is always going to be a compromise. There are dozens of details that effect the both the transaction (sale) and the product (sail). You have to expect that and deal with it. In my case, after more than several screwups/misunderstandings/etc I tried to create an order/design workflow that captured everything in writing. I typically order 1-2 sails every year. Details/cost/drawings/details/pictures/review/etc. At least then we both should know what we were dealing with. The last straw was an agreed upon feature (a tell-tail window) that was missing, and when I pressed them to pay for having it added (or pay both ways to do it themselves, his choice), he refused and instead tried to talk me out of the need for it. The end of a 8-year 7-sail relationship over $75.

 

[StargazerP303]

Not related to the above, but I recently fired my long-time sail maker.

A relationship with a distant sailmaker is always going to be a compromise. There are dozens of details that effect the both the transaction (sale) and the product (sail). You have to expect that and deal with it. In my case, after more than several screwups/misunderstandings/etc I tried to create an order/design workflow that captured everything in writing. At least then we both knew what we were dealing with. The last straw was an agreed upon feature (a tell-tail window) that was missing, and when I pressed them to pay for having it added (or pay both ways to do it themselves, his choice), he refused and instead tried to talk me out of it. The end of a 8-year 7-sail relationship over $75.

Ya, I hate when that happens! But, If its a requirement and you specified it properly.. Make no mistakes, because of the internet it will affect their business in the long run. I just had a sail made in Maine last year and I can't tell you how great Bohndell Sailmakers of Rockport, Maine were. told them and Robin the vessel type and asked them to add two square feet to it.. BOOM it was done and fit as it should. Started June and got it July 1st. paid up front 25%..%50 upon completion and delivered. Final 25% after installed or 30 days. Paid in full, with a $200.00 tip for the labor personnel.
But over $75.00 That's just nuts.

 

[dlochner]

@Jackdaw's experience with the particular sailmaker he used appears to be unique in that it took 8 years for them to part ways. When I was looking for a new Genoa, I did investigate the sailmaker he used and decided not to go with him even though he was practically local, only 100 miles down I 90.

When I contacted sailors who lived and sailed near the sailmaker, the reviews were no all that positive. While the sailmaker was competent, he was often difficult to deal with and often took a "my way or the highway" approach to customers. I went elsewhere.

Last year I ordered an expensive full winter cover for my boat. The cover alone, not counting the frame, weighs in at well over 100 lbs. It takes 2 men and a small boy (or a forklift) to pick up that sucker. I fault the canvas maker for not mentioning adding a zipper, thus making the cover into 2 smaller, lighter pieces. He knows his product and should have confirmed whether I wanted it in one or 2 pieces. He didn't. On the other hand I was not clear about one measurement. The canvas maker looked at the picture I took and didn't read the email and the cutout for the radar pole is in the wrong place. I'll take complete responsibility for that error.

 

[Jackdaw]

@Jackdaw's experience with the particular sailmaker he used appears to be unique in that it took 8 years for them to part ways. When I was looking for a new Genoa, I did investigate the sailmaker he used and decided not to go with him even though he was practically local, only 100 miles down I 90.

When I contacted sailors who lived and sailed near the sailmaker, the reviews were no all that positive. While the sailmaker was competent, he was often difficult to deal with and often took a "my way or the highway" approach to customers. I went elsewhere.

Last year I ordered an expensive full winter cover for my boat. The cover alone, not counting the frame, weighs in at well over 100 lbs. It takes 2 men and a small boy (or a forklift) to pick up that sucker. I fault the canvas maker for not mentioning adding a zipper, thus making the cover into 2 smaller, lighter pieces. He knows his product and should have confirmed whether I wanted it in one or 2 pieces. He didn't. On the other hand I was not clear about one measurement. The canvas maker looked at the picture I took and didn't read the email and the cutout for the radar pole is in the wrong place. I'll take complete responsibility for that error.

Yea it was a weird deal. I am totally OK with sailmakers having a strong opinion and prickly personalities. Like World Champ Joel Ronning says, they have ‘rough bark’. Usually it means that they know their stuff. But I do as well, and its my money. So normally I would win, after a long discussion. But to not do what you say... that’s where it crosses a line. So if people ask me, I tell them. Good sails, good prices, untrustworthy sailmaker.

 

[Ward H]

Could it be that I am just such a small fish that these companies
don't put as much effort into the account because the BIG fish matter more?

Actually I believe this is true to the extent of customer service.
I read rave reviews from a big guy on this forum who had ordered many sails from a certainFlorida distributor. I ordered a main sail for my O'day 25 from him. Didn't need measurements as it was a well known sail. He didn't install insignia as ordered didn't want to spend time offering me options that I ended up wanting and when it came in it was cut wrong at the tack. He told me how to fix it with a line around the mast and to send it in at the end of the season for correction.

Instead I spoke with Judy B and ended up buying another main sail and a jib from her. I had great service, quick turn around and was very happy with the sails.

Glad for her she retired, sorry for me that when I need sails for the C30 I won't be able to order from her.

 

[Ken Cross]

We got our main and jib right here on SBO and they fit and work great (Doyle Sails).

We had plenty of conversation which made sure it was just what we wanted. You order sails and then follow their detailed measuring instructions that are sent soon after. Some of the measurements are used so they can mathimatically make sure you haven't made a measuring mistake.
Ken