After five years, my 9.2A is out of the water. Now what?

[bugbitten]

I think I'll do the same - reuse the toggles. That'll save enough to put a downpayment on the new transmission I'm considering! As you know, the engine is not original. It's the usual 2GM20F, but has a Kanzaki KM3A transmission, which usually comes with the 3 cylinder Yanmar. It has shabby, flaking grey paint that suggests to me a rattle-can rebuild. It's not been particularly decisive going into gear the last six months or so, although a fluid change did seem to help a little. Anyhow, since my wife probably will never allow me to buy another boat, I don't mind throwing way too much money at this one. So, for about $1700 I can have a shiny new KM2P tranny (I don't think they make the KM2A anymore). This complicates the prop shaft situation, since I believe the overall length of the transmissions is different, with the 3A I currently have being longer. My manual shows the 3A's overall length at 300mm, but doesn't show the 2A's (let alone the 2P's) dimensions. Well, it does show the 2A's, less the bell housing.

Any thoughts on putting in a KM2P?

Thanks.

John "she'll be back in the water by August, only I don't know what year" Livingston

 

[bugbitten]

Regarding color match. We have my Great Aunt's 1964 Dodge Dart GT. From the factory it was ivory...almost a post it note yellow. My Great Uncle had the cheapest work done possible on the car over the years. I swear I never should have bought the darn thing them, but I always wanted it. Anyway, the last paint job has a greenish tint to it. I needed touch up paint so I took it to a paint shop that read the paint color with a spectrophotometer. It should have been an exact match. It wasn't even close. It is because color is all about perception. I told him "it always looked a little green to me". He added a touch of green and it was perfect.

Hmm. Since that Dart's engine compartment was designed with a straight six in mind, I bet the Jag's V12 would fit nicely! Of course, it's usually an American mill that goes into a Jag, and not the other way around.

I think my color perception is about average. I just need someone standing next to me saying, "It looks perfect!" and I'll be happy. Unfortunately, so far no one's been kind enough to say that. Once I've got her all sanded down, I'll mix up another batch, with less (or no) blue to touch up any remaining areas. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[woodster]

I think I'll do the same - reuse the toggles. That'll save enough to put a downpayment on the new transmission I'm considering! As you know, the engine is not original. It's the usual 2GM20F, but has a Kanzaki KM3A transmission, which usually comes with the 3 cylinder Yanmar. It has shabby, flaking grey paint that suggests to me a rattle-can rebuild. It's not been particularly decisive going into gear the last six months or so, although a fluid change did seem to help a little. Anyhow, since my wife probably will never allow me to buy another boat, I don't mind throwing way too much money at this one. So, for about $1700 I can have a shiny new KM2P tranny (I don't think they make the KM2A anymore). This complicates the prop shaft situation, since I believe the overall length of the transmissions is different, with the 3A I currently have being longer. My manual shows the 3A's overall length at 300mm, but doesn't show the 2A's (let alone the 2P's) dimensions. Well, it does show the 2A's, less the bell housing.

Any thoughts on putting in a KM2P?

Thanks.

John "she'll be back in the water by August, only I don't know what year" Livingston

sell the KMP3 to help pay for the new one and replace the tranny before you do the shaft log rework or you may be sorry

 

[bugbitten]

sell the KMP3 to help pay for the new one and replace the tranny before you do the shaft log rework or you may be sorry

That's exactly my sentiment. I'm awaiting word from the merchant to make sure there's no difference between the 2a and the 2p that might cause issues. My wife's nervous enough about getting out on the water. Under two boat bucks is a small price to pay to eliminate transmission failure as a major bugaboo.

 

[bugbitten]

Pulled the KM3a transmission out today. The seller of the new KM2p tranny sent me a couple of measurements and they look to be identical. So, with the same critical measurements and ratio, I should be good to go. BUT, of course this leads me to some more "might as well" thoughts. The engine shows 917 hours on the clock, which is, I think about 100 hours added to her since purchase five years ago. The boat came with no service records, so I've no idea how accurate that hour reading is. The engine runs reasonably well (but I've not really been on a similarly-powered boat to have a basis for comparison), and the oil samples I send in for evaluation come back with reasonable readings. The crankcase oil does turn black immediately after changing. There's some smoke when first started, but it quickly stops. It'll start pretty much any time of year, although I do try to keep the block no colder than about 45 degrees.

So, do I spend about $2K putting in a new transmission and damper, or do I spend about twice that for a rebuilt engine and transmission? A friend and I already lifted the engine to swap mounts. I don't see any reason why we couldn't handle the full swap, so there shouldn't be any labor charges involved.

For about $5K I could put in a rebuilt 3GM engine and transmission, which would obviously be a lot more work. I like the idea of the extra power, but I've got a brand new Flexo-fold prop for the 2GM, along with a fair pile of spares.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, as always. I'm doing the transmission for sure. I'll upload a picture of the inside of the bellhousing, mainly to show the oil there in the bottom (the transmission leaned over at one point, which is why the oil is also up on the side of the bellhousing, too. Since there seems to be no leakage from the transmission's seal, I'm guessing it's the engine rear main seal that needs attention. I'd already replaced the leaking cam seal in the front of the engine (just in case this gives you any better idea of the engine's age/condition). Of course, if I replace that seal and clean things up, I could get a fair down payment either as cores or sold to a private party on CL.

John

 

[woodster]

you can go for the extra power if you wish but there really is no need on our boats ...if set up and propped correctly you will be ok fine ....hull speed is 6.75...... i get 5.5 at 2800 rpms and that is fine .......you do have to pull the flywheel to replace that rear seal

 

[sailnewbie]

I'm not familiar with these motors but I maintain a fleet of spot trucks with the small Cummins in them and we easily get 30,000 hrs out of them before things start to go wrong, so I would think you have many hrs left in yours.

 

[bugbitten]

I'll upload my latest oil eval, along with a picture of the flywheel. Do I just remove those six bolts? I'm thinking that, if I put in a new transmission, I'll do a new damper, too.
If I swap engines, I will stick with the two-cylinder version. My life's definitely complicated enough as it is. The oil eval prior to this one had shown a fair amount of aluminum, but the oil had been in there quite a while.

 

[bugbitten]

Oh, and I promise to scrub out all that old oil and grease from under the engine!

 

[woodster]

those six bolts hold the damper in the flywheel ..when you remove the damper there will be more bolts in the center of the flywheel hub and those have to com out as well..... the flywheel is heavy so beware of the impending weight on removal...and when you go back together you have to torque the bolts to spec...

 

[bugbitten]

I'm not familiar with these motors but I maintain a fleet of spot trucks with the small Cummins in them and we easily get 30,000 hrs out of them before things start to go wrong, so I would think you have many hrs left in yours.

The problem is that the engine's something of an unknown quantity. It is a replacement engine and transmission, put in I think long before I bought the boat five years ago. They took a fair number of shortcuts in doing the installation, which does not inspire the level of confidence I'd like to have. If I didn't have the fuel tank out, I'd be tempted to have a local diesel expert fire the engine up and give it a listen. I have had very little experience with these outside of my own, so I've nothing to compare it to. I suspect you're right, though, that given proper maintenance, it has a lot of life left in it.
John

 

[woodster]

these engines are virtually bullet proof ....use it till it wont run any longer and add oil like captain ron does in the movie theses things are tough ...just do good maintance on it and it will treat you well

 

[bugbitten]

Okay. I don't think I want to spend what a new engine would run, and a rebuilt one would have it's own unknowns. Sure would look pretty in the engine bay, though! I'll wait and see what the engine rebuilder says, but I'm listing heavily toward just doing the transmission and damper (and taking care of that seal).

 

[woodster]

now you're talking

 

[sailnewbie]

Motor should be fine, I don't know the schedule of your oil changes but as I was speaking of my fleet we change oil and filters every 500 hrs or once a month which ever came first. We run 24/7 so hrs usually come first, but I'm spending company $$$$. change everything possible while its apart and easy!

 

[Mark Maulden]

Yep

now you're talking

 

[sailnewbie]

One more thing, you can your oil once a week and it'll still be black after a short time, pulling plug only gets about 95% of oil, valves hold old oil,rings,injectors and so on. If you pulled plug then hand turned motor every hr on the hr you will still have old oil sitting around for a week or more

 

[bugbitten]

This week's update: Had major back issues, partly, I think, from yanking out the tranmission, but mostly from just asking a lot of a 67 year old back in general. Felt good enough that I got back down in the engine compartment and, using the sliding hammer puller that I'd used to pull the shaft and that AutoZone wouldn't take back, I was able to get the stuck damper off the flywheel. I used a bit of heat from my torch, too, which generally seems to move things in the right direction. Next will be tackling the flywheel bolts with my impact wrench so I can get at the leaking seal. Any tips on locking the shaft in place so I can properly torque the flywheel bolts when the time comes?

The PSS shaft seal arrived, as did seven new, open body, chrome-over-bronze turnbuckles (I'd already replaced the one on the forestay). I removed the old turnbuckle on the rear port shroud and yanked the chainplate for polishing and examination. The knee it bolts too seems nice and solid, so that's one I won't have to replace.

The new transmission, damper, and rear main seal should arrive Monday. I was going to replace the control cables, too, but those were out of stock. Once the new transmission is in, I'll measure for the new prop shaft and get that and it's coupler ordered. I'll probably order it an inch or two long, just to be on the safe side.

Seems like there was something else, but that's the bulk of the current progress.

 

[woodster]

just stick a block of wood in between the flywheel gear and the housing jamming the wheel and torque away in a cross pattern ...make sure you are seated all the way on the crank shaft

 

[bugbitten]

Spent a little time at the boat this morning pulling the flywheel to get at the rear main seal. Well, the flywheel came out easily enough, but there's no evidence of it leaking. It's always possible to screw things up, putting in a new seal, so I'm tempted to leave it alone. I'll upload a picture. I thought it was leaking because there was oil in the transmission's bell housing when I separated the transmission from the engine, and I didn't think the transmission's seal was leaking either.