Adhesive for flotation to fiberglass?

Migs

.
Sep 12, 2016
6
Oday 19 Twin Lakes, CT
Howdy All,

Am a new owner of a 1982 Oday 19. It is in need of some TLC and am looking to see what you suggest. I have searched a few forums but they don't seem to address this.

The sole on the starboard side of the cockpit flexes a little when I step on it. Upon investigation, I see that the original "foam" flotation has become separated from the fiberglass about an inch and a half. Any suggestions as to what adhesive to use to reattach the foam?

My intial thoughts are some sort of epoxy but think it needs to be flexible, no?

I will need to force it up back into place as it likes where it sits and it's tight quarters in there. I can access the spot through the cockpit seat hatch cover.

Many thanks,
Migs
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
Your probably right that it needs to be a little flexible. I believe epoxy might melt some foams so I don't think I would use that. Maybe a liquid nails type adhesive for external use? If your really careful with its use maybe an expandable foam? That stuff seems to stick to everything. Just don't squirt it into a tight place where it will push things out of place when it expands. I've heard of people using to seal around the framework of a door frame and it pushed the frame way out of whack.
 
Jun 14, 2010
2,081
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
I doubt epoxy would be detrimental to the foam, and it's a great choice for this. If in doubt, do a small test before you use it. No you don't want it to be flexible.
 

Migs

.
Sep 12, 2016
6
Oday 19 Twin Lakes, CT
Hi Ward and Larry. Thanks for the input. I did notice that the existing adhesive on the underside of the cockpit floor was very stiff/hard material. I was thinking of trying the expandable foam and agree that it could blow things apart. I have seen door jams bow with too much expandable foam.
I will test some epoxy on the foam and report back. Thanks again.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
If I were going to glue foam in, I'd probably use contact cement, if I had reasonably smooth surfaces to stick to.

I have used 3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive to glue minicell foam into kayaks. It's still holding 10 years later. And the inside of my kayak gets wet from time to time.

I'm not sure I'd use expanding polyurethane foam. I know I would definitely want closed cell foam, so that it doesn't absorb water, and I feel as if expanding PU foam isn't all that closed cell, because people often complain of their foam getting waterlogged. Chunks of polystyrene foam would be water resistant.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
The blue can of the spray foam insulation the one for doors and windows. I was told once is closed cell by the guy who answered the 800 number on the can. It is also a little safer as far expanding too much and breaking something. The stuff also sticks like crazy.

A bunch of us were sitting around coming up with evil plans for someone we particularly disliked. Mine was to use the spray foam in the cracks of the offenders car doors and seal them shut, I won. Now everyone tries to avoid pissing me off as I have other terrible awful ideas as well.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
A bunch of us were sitting around coming up with evil plans for someone we particularly disliked. Mine was to use the spray foam in the cracks of the offenders car doors and seal them shut, I won. Now everyone tries to avoid pissing me off as I have other terrible awful ideas as well.
Yabut, did you actually seal the guy's doors shut? Or is just the threat sufficient to maintain your awesome fear-based powers? :D
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Never did. The worthless piece of what the scum at the bottom of a putrid pond would call beyond contempt left the organization and my evil powers were never called upon. I am still the unit reference for simple pranks all the way to going nuclear on a deserving individual. I have made a vow to only use my powers for good or against the worst of what passes for humanity. Just knowing the weapon was available has kept many in line, détente sorta.

.
 
Jan 22, 2008
506
Catalina 310 278 Lyndeborough NH
Howdy All,

Am a new owner of a 1982 Oday 19. It is in need of some TLC and am looking to see what you suggest. I have searched a few forums but they don't seem to address this.

The sole on the starboard side of the cockpit flexes a little when I step on it. Upon investigation, I see that the original "foam" flotation has become separated from the fiberglass about an inch and a half. Any suggestions as to what adhesive to use to reattach the foam?

My intial thoughts are some sort of epoxy but think it needs to be flexible, no?

I will need to force it up back into place as it likes where it sits and it's tight quarters in there. I can access the spot through the cockpit seat hatch cover.

Many thanks,
Migs
First of all, the sole of the cockpit should not have a noticeable "flex"!

I suspect that the wooden support filler of the cockpit floor has become wet. It needs to be addressed.

Otherwise, I would use an expanding closed cell expanding foam as the glue. I have seen other techniques of epoxying a strip of fiberglass across the foam like a bracket.

The foam is not structural. It is held up off the bilge so it will not absorb water and give the O'Day 19 buoyancy if it were to take in water.

BTW, I have O'Day 19 #453 (XDYC0453M83H). It's the boat I use when I need to trailer to a location and quickly set up. It's great for beaching and other shallow water activities.

What hull number is yours?
 

Migs

.
Sep 12, 2016
6
Oday 19 Twin Lakes, CT
You're funny Rick. I'll make sure not to get on your bad side.

John, #402 is the boat I have. I'll have to crawl into the starboard hatch and get a better view. Am in the process of re-bedding the hardware and making sure the mast step area is no longer as punky as it was....same with the cleats and at some point Barlow winches were installed and have gotten them to ratchet nicely...with some maintenance.

I also noticed the starboards side "stringer"? if that's what's it called...the fore and aft hull support that is fiberglassed into the hull (bilge side) had a hole in the 'glass. I shot some penetrating epoxy in there and it absorbed the entire 60cc syringe. I drilled 5 more holes running forward and shot more epoxy and it all disappeared. Not sure if the support is rotten or is made of foam. My fear that over the years the deck and windows leaked, the bilge got full of water and made it's way into that stringer support. Good thing I'm not planning a transatlantic crossing....hahahha.

I'll crawl into the bilge and take some photos and post. The foam is a bit dificult to move vertically. I am thinking of some sort of mechanical jack to help push it back into place with the adhesive in place...all this, of course, without damaging the hull or foam.

I'll look for the wooden support filler.

Thanks for your help everyone.
 

Migs

.
Sep 12, 2016
6
Oday 19 Twin Lakes, CT
Update. I've decided to go with the Thixo Epoxy from Jamestown to glue the flotation foam to the fiberglass. Seems to be holding for now. We shall see how it holds over the summer.
On the flexing cockpit floor.....I have entered the black hole of rotten balsa wood core. I did the old marine surveyors trick with the brass hammer and tapped around on the sole only to find out that 3/4's of the floor has a dull sound which leads me to think that there isn't any core in between the fiberglass.....That will be a big project and will deal with it this fall/winter. I'll have to cut the top skin off, remove the core and replace it with balsa wood or some synthetic core material and install the skin again. Oh joy. I'll have to post pics when I dig into the "black hole of rotten core"....hahahaha....Mad scientist laugh there....

Thanks Ward, Larry, Brian, Rick and John for your responses.

Later,
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Better if you could do the coring from underneath. I know there is some room under the cockpit in my 192, but it would be a hard job. Dunno about the 19.

Still expecting to have to dig out the mast step on mine and do... something to it. Damn rig won't stay tight. No one seems to know what the mast step layup is like, so...
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
It is POSSIBLE that there isn't a core to the cockpit sole on the 19, although I might be surprised if there isn't. I thought the cockpit sole on my DS II was spongy and so planned to try to fix it the first Winter after I bought the boat. A cut a hole for an inspection port into the sole and was surprised to find that instead of a cored sole there were fiberglass covered foam "beams" to stiffen the sole (an I had cut right through the one down the centerline of the sole!). I installed a couple of plywood pieces to bridge the gap and still allow the inspection port. I would think that the O'DAY 19 would have a core in the cockpit sole, but maybe it also has the same setup as the DS II?
 

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Migs

.
Sep 12, 2016
6
Oday 19 Twin Lakes, CT
Better if you could do the coring from underneath. I know there is some room under the cockpit in my 192, but it would be a hard job. Dunno about the 19.

Not a lot of room under the cockpit sole as it is full of flotation so I think I'll have to go in from the top side.

Still expecting to have to dig out the mast step on mine and do... something to it. Damn rig won't stay tight. No one seems to know what the mast step layup is like, so...
From the mast step inspection on the 19 it appears to have a thick plywood layer under the top fiberglass skin then the balsa wood core then the thin fiberglass cabin top. I was able to remove a bit of rotted balsa wood core in the mast step bolt holes and removing a little of the plywood and injected a bunch of penetrating epoxy then thickened epoxy. Will re-drill bolt holes and use some butyl tape to bed the step.
 

Migs

.
Sep 12, 2016
6
Oday 19 Twin Lakes, CT
It is POSSIBLE that there isn't a core to the cockpit sole on the 19, although I might be surprised if there isn't. I thought the cockpit sole on my DS II was spongy and so planned to try to fix it the first Winter after I bought the boat. A cut a hole for an inspection port into the sole and was surprised to find that instead of a cored sole there were fiberglass covered foam "beams" to stiffen the sole (an I had cut right through the one down the centerline of the sole!). I installed a couple of plywood pieces to bridge the gap and still allow the inspection port. I would think that the O'DAY 19 would have a core in the cockpit sole, but maybe it also has the same setup as the DS II?
Sunbird, there is one fiberglass covered foam athwartships beam on the floor of the cockpit of the 19. I too have an inspection port just aft of the centerboard pennant cleat....allows me to pump out the bilge. There was balsa wood core that was wet around the inspection port so cropped that out and placed 3/8 inch plywood soaked in penetrating epoxy as a temporary measure until I tackle the job this winter.

The fiberglass foam beam does seem a little soft and depending on how things look may reinforce that beam or replace it. By the way, nice pic of the foam block under port seat.