About to drop cash on a new mainsail, advice please.

[dgreen1991]

As I have only sailed this boat twice I would like some advice. This boat, Hunter 26 WB, has a fixed gooseneck. With the mainsheet pulled tight, the end of the boom sags down and hits the awning. The boom is NOT parallel with the deck. I'm thinking the leech is stretched and time for a new main. Am I correct or is there a sail adjustment I am unaware of? Should I purchase an extra set of reef points on the new sail? Do the Hunter 26 owners get their sail number from the hull ID like Catalina 22 owners? No sail numbers on this sail. Thinking of purchasing the 500 series from Precision Sails. Good decision, bad decision, any advice appreciated.

 

[Jim 5757]

We used National Sails in Fla. Rolly Tasker is the actual loft. I would think any loft worth its salt would make sails to your spec and discuss options with you

 

[mz4wheeler]

A couple of overseas sail makers I've looked at, but never dropped cash:

http://www.leesails.com/
http://www.loongsails.com/

I'm curious of any positive/negative experiences with these guys.

 

[Benny17441]

Do you have a "toping lift"? Can it be adjusted? It is a wire or a line that runs from the top of the mast to the back end of the boom. It holds the boom up when the sail is down and can be set up or adjusted to angle the boom up or down as desired. Don't know the condition of your sails but I would get to know the boat and check up on sail performance before dropping down some cash on new ones.

 

[dgreen1991]

We used National Sails in Fla. Rolly Tasker is the actual loft. I would think any loft worth its salt would make sails to your spec and discuss options with you

Thanks, I will check them out.

 

[jssailem]

Dgreen. Congrats on the new boat. Great time in the life of an owner. Getting ready and sailing your new to you boat.
My boat has a fixed boom at the mast. I have a topping lift that runs from the mast head to the end of the boom. It holds the boom level and allows for adjustment of the boom. Alternatively some boats are rigged with a compression rigid boom vang. It holds the boom up.

 

[dgreen1991]

Do you have a "toping lift"? Can it be adjusted? It is a wire or a line that runs from the top of the mast to the back end of the boom. It holds the boom up when the sail is down and can be set up or adjusted to angle the boom up or down as desired. Don't know the condition of your sails but I would get to know the boat and check up on sail performance before dropping down some cash on new ones.

I thought the only purpose of the topping lift is to keep the boom off the deck when mainsail is lowered. Yes, but topping lift introduces bag in the sail and in my opinion destroys sail shape. I never used a topping lift until this boat. I installed lazy jacks on my C22. Probably the original mainsail. When reefed the boom is correct as in this pic.

 

[dgreen1991]

If the factory sail sags I will get the leech cut shorter. I hate the boom sagging down. Do any other H26 or 260 owners use the topping lift to keep the boom level WHEN SAILING and is that normal?

?

 

[jssailem]

Understand. Sail shape- perhaps the sail has stretched. Usually not significant stretch in the leach but possible. Perhaps the sail was not cut correctly for this boat. Note that the shapes of sails have changed over the last 10 years. If the cloth is still good you can have the sail recut. If the cloth is worn then new sail is definitely in your future. Save the old one for days when the wind howls and your less concerned about the sail shape.
I use my lift to affect sail shape and when reefed the sail does flatten like newer designs.

 

[dgreen1991]

Understand. Sail shape- perhaps the sail has stretched. Usually not significant stretch in the leach but possible. Perhaps the sail was not cut correctly for this boat. Note that the shapes of sails have changed over the last 10 years. If the cloth is still good you can have the sail recut. If the cloth is worn then new sail is definitely in your future. Save the old one for days when the wind howls and your less concerned about the sail shape.
I use my lift to affect sail shape and when reefed the sail does flatten like newer designs.

I guess I should measure the leech and find out what the stock leech measurement is and what my desired leech length is. I may have the leech cut a little shorter if the factory leech line is excessively long. I am pretty sure it is stretched and I want new sails. I just want nice sail shape and performance and will pay for it. I will replace the main this year and jib next year.

 

[Parsons]

I do not own a H26, but some of this is standard on all sailboats. Topping lifts are only used for holding the boom up when not sailing. As you noted, if you support the boom too much using a topping lift, rigid boom, etc. then you get a poor sail shape which translates to poor performance. Most likely, if the sail is over 10 years old, it's stretched to the point where a tummy-tuck trim by the sail loft will not bring it into shape.
Most of your sail questions require you to answer some questions first, starting with "What do you want this sail to do?" Are you planning to race this boat? - that will tell you the quality of the sail you want, and if you need sail numbers. What type of weather do you intend to play in? - that will tell you if you need that additional reef. I'm guessing from the type of boat (and your great pictures!) that you're day sailing around the bay, and only in fair weather. When it looks nasty, you just head in. That's great, but don't overbuy high quality racing sails for that purpose. By all means, shop around for a good price (and winter is a good season to shop), but compare things equally. Dacron comes in variety of qualities and cuts.
Some other principles: All cloth stretches more on one direction than the other, and everything stretches when pulled diagonally - we'll pause a minute while you play with your shirt. Sails have forces pulling on three corners, so aligning the cloth with the points (foot, head, clew) limits the stretch. A cross-cut sail (cheapest) just puts up the cloth and let's it stretch. Radial cut are more wasteful of material (more costly), but align the points with the cloth. All sails have a life expectancy. What you pay for in sails is how long it will hold that new wing shape - 2-3 years, or a decade.

 

[dgreen1991]

Also, the original sail is a full battened main. Thinking I only need the top 2 fully battened and the rest partial.

 

[dgreen1991]

I do not own a H26, but some of this is standard on all sailboats. Topping lifts are only used for holding the boom up when not sailing. As you noted, if you support the boom too much using a topping lift, rigid boom, etc. then you get a poor sail shape which translates to poor performance. Most likely, if the sail is over 10 years old, it's stretched to the point where a tummy-tuck trim by the sail loft will not bring it into shape.
Most of your sail questions require you to answer some questions first, starting with "What do you want this sail to do?" Are you planning to race this boat? - that will tell you the quality of the sail you want, and if you need sail numbers. What type of weather do you intend to play in? - that will tell you if you need that additional reef. I'm guessing from the type of boat (and your great pictures!) that you're day sailing around the bay, and only in fair weather. When it looks nasty, you just head in. That's great, but don't overbuy high quality racing sails for that purpose. By all means, shop around for a good price (and winter is a good season to shop), but compare things equally. Dacron comes in variety of qualities and cuts.
Some other principles: All cloth stretches more on one direction than the other, and everything stretches when pulled diagonally - we'll pause a minute while you play with your shirt. Sails have forces pulling on three corners, so aligning the cloth with the points (foot, head, clew) limits the stretch. A cross-cut sail (cheapest) just puts up the cloth and let's it stretch. Radial cut are more wasteful of material (more costly), but align the points with the cloth. All sails have a life expectancy. What you pay for in sails is how long it will hold that new wing shape - 2-3 years, or a decade.

 

[dgreen1991]

I like performance but am primarily a cruiser. I prefer to pay more for a longer lasting sail. You know how it is when 2 sailboats meet, the race is on, so performance sails are great. This will probably be the last sailboat I buy. I like to have my boat on the trailer in the back yard when I'm not on the water. I like to be able to be in the Gulf, Keys or landlocked water in one day. This water ballasted boat gives me the room to live in comfort and sails great. The mermaid A/C/Heat keeps me comfortable when we choose to dock. The would be dock fees go into the boat and trailer are substantially cheaper. This boat has a top speed of 80MPH and can get me there quick. I would get bored sailing the same area all the time. With the money I save from dock fees, I have no problem parting with money for some good long lasting performance cruising sails. Sailing is one of my favorite things to do in life. The only way I would replace this boat is if I decided to live aboard.

 

[jssailem]

Great images of the boat.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Great images of the boat.

+1
Anchoring in the shallows. One of the cool advantages of a retractable keel.

 

[Parsons]

DGreen, your "performance cruising" mindset is much like mine. I am principally a single-handed / couples cruiser, but I do like good sail shape and performance. I agree with your choice of replacing the main first as that seems to be the engine on your boat - the larger, performance sail. Perhaps some H26 owners will chime in at this point. For better performance, and longer useful life, you may also consider laminate cruising sails. I've been told by sailmaker's reps that there are two lifespans of sails, the performance life and the physical life. The shorter performance life is the time the sail holds the original wing shape it was designed for, and the physical life is the time without actual holes. With cross-cut Dacron, the performance life is relatively short (2-4 years), but they will look like sails forever. With laminate sails, they hold their performance shape for a decade (obviously depending on their use and care), but then fail by pieces falling off the sail! I chose laminates because I like that wing shape.

 

[Benny17441]

I thought the only purpose of the topping lift is to keep the boom off the deck when mainsail is lowered. Yes, but topping lift introduces bag in the sail and in my opinion destroys sail shape. I never used a topping lift until this boat.View attachment 128155

Holding the boom up is the primary function of the topping lift but not the only one. It allows for minor adjustments to the sail under certain conditions and the swinging boom can be used to lift things in and out of the cockpit. Let me tell you what I suspect; perhaps the PO when he installed the bimini top he saw the need to raise the gooseneck on the boom so that it would clear the top when sailing and now when the boom is set to parallel the sail bags up badly. Check with other H26 owners as to the distance they have from the deck to the gooseneck. The correct set up for the boom is that the positioning of the gooseneck and the topping lift should allow the boom to rest close to parallel with the cabin top while the sail is able to maintain a fair shape (3 point adjustment). This precludes some boats from being able to install bimini tops unless the owner is willing to compromise. If this is the case purchasing new sail to the boat's specs will not solve the problem; it would then be a new and baggy sail. You may elect to have a custom sail made at added cost and other considerations. On another topic, I'm an avid trailer boat sailor and I applaud your foresight in using the boat to cruise our Interstates to go to distant sailing venues. That is what the boats were built for. On the other hand I consider that storing a boat on its trailer away from the water diminishes the boating experience. Nothing like running out to the marina to go out and sail for a couple of hours in the evening in the middle of the work week or sitting in the cockpit at the dock talking to fellow sailors. I had a boat at one time that over a number of years I payed three times more in dock fees than the price of the boat and it was all worth it. If you ever feel like you may be getting tired of trailering, launching and retrieving in your home area just try docking the boat for a couple of months.

 

[DrJudyB]

Hi,

Full disclosure: I'm a sailmaker, representing Hyde Sails in the USA.
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Notes on the Hunter 260 Water Ballast, with B& R rig.

The Hunter 260 has no backstay and it has spreaders that are very swept aft. The mast should be tuned with a rake of 4-6 degrees, and considerable bend in it. The rake and bend stabilize the mast even though it has no backstay.

So the angle formed by the boom and the mast should be around 84-86 degrees, not 90. Getting the curve of the luff is very important too, so the sail has the right amount curve in the luff to match the mast bend.
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Droopy Boom Syndrome

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3-G5RQ08N8BN0dKYzZJZnM4aUU

The leech of a sail usually doesn't stretch appreciably, but what DOES happen is that the bolt rope inside the luff may shrink with age. Modern, high quality mainsails don't have the shrinking bolt rope problem as much, but older ones or ones using soft dacron ropes shrink. Modern, high quality mainsails use a "hard" boltrope that neither shrinks nor stretches very much

After the bolt rope shrinks, the head of the sail cannot be hoisted up to the top of the mast. The leech is still the same length as when manufactured, so the mainsail hangs lower than it should at the back end of the boom. That's what the owner is probably seeing.

There's another thing that happens when the bolt rope shrinks: The sail gets very baggy along the luff and the draft gets very deep. The boat heels more and won't point and the sail is very hard to trim well.

There's a way to "fix" the drooping boom so the head of the sail can go up to the top of the mast. Most quality sails with a soft dacron rope have a "tail" hanging out at the bottom, which is stitched to the sail at the lower end of the luff. If you release the stitches, slide the luff down over the extra rope, and then restitch it, it may solve your droopy boom problem.

But.... and there is a but.... most of the sails with shrunken bolt ropes these days are either really old and stretched out or they are made to a low price point with OEM grade, stretchy sailcloth. Releasing the bolt rope makes the mainsail useable, but most of the time the shape is pretty baggy due to the age and condition of the sailcloth. Releasing the bolt rope in the luff might make an un-usable sail usable, but it probably won't give it a like-new shape.
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[DrJudyB]

How do I embed a photo in my post?? Thanks