A visit and some mental meanderings

[BobM]

A visit and my off season repair list. What is making yours?

Visited Triple Play on the hard Monday night. I wanted to make sure that they replaced the back stay properly after haul out. After the kink they installed last year, that blew the beginning of the season for me with its required replacement, I had to check. It was fine. The new turnbuckle was well lubricated with Tefgel, so they had little excuse to screw it up, but you never know.

TP is in pole position for spring, with her late October haul. I have plenty of things to fix this off season, but an early launch sure looks tempting. Maybe I'll do so then snag a temporary slip at the club to do some of the above the water line repairs at. :dance:

This off season I need to replace the fw tank under the vee berth. That should be a blast. I may have to cut my way in then cut the tank up to get it out. Then shell out about $ for a new plastic tank.

As long as I am doing the tank thing I should replace my aluminum fuel tank too. It was patched by the PO before I bought it. If I knew he was going to pull it I would have drop shipped him a new plastic one. Since the darn thing pinholed in multiple places once, it is certainly destined to do so again shortly. The tank is still 3/4 full. I only burned 1/4 of a tank this season because I only sailed her six times. My friend has a pump, so I could pump the tank out and throw the diesel in my house's oil tank.

On the lighter side, I should finish the teak grab rails. I started stripping them and they sat stripped all season. I am thinking about taking them off entirely so I can take them home and do a stellar job on them. Perhaps while I am unbolting them from the deck I can also unbolt the wooden bases for the turning blocks, refinish and rebed them on deck. They were a little damp during the survey. Letting them dry out over the winter couldn't hurt.

Then there is also the task of resealing the chain plates. The PO fixed the main bulk heads which should mean he resealed 2 of 6 properly, but I guess I will feel better if I redo those as well as the other 4, which are overdue. Plus I need to clean up and lube the closed turnbuckles with Tef Gel so they won't get bound up. I may just replace the closed turnbuckles with new ones and keep the old shrouds for now. It would be easy and an improvement. Then I can replace the shrouds in pairs at my leisure in pairs until I get around to dropping the mast.

Wait a second...while I have the fuel tank out it presents a unique opportunity to have more physical space to evaluate if I do have a leaking rudder stuffing box. Which seems likely based on the input of someone on here (sorry, can't remember who I had that conversation with at the moment, but I am still drinking my first cup of coffee this morning.

The additional space would also allow me easier access to run the fw plumbing to my new cockpit shower. You know...the one I installed when I moved the GPS from the coaming...because it filled the hole in the coaming.

Speaking of which...I need to finish that job. The wires are almost all chased through the new pedestal guard. It is only about an hours work to complete all the wiring. I bought much heavier gauge than I needed for some of it and had to reorder thinner stuff. Then I just need to take it down to the boat and mount it.

Speaking of which, when I pull the cockpit table off the old guard I can drag it home and add it to my varnishing list. I oiled it the season before last when I installed it and it didn't last a season. Didn't get to it this season, which is pretty sad, but it was a miserable excuse for a season anyway.

Other things...new port light plastic...new forward hatch...add a siphon break to the exhaust...install the low cooling water alarm...mount the barometer on the bulkhead...rig the adjustable topping lift...fix the throttle tension...lube the steering...

Whew...I am tired already just thinking about all this stuff and I didn't even mention stripping the hull, ripping out and changing the sole and installing a block under the compression post while it is out. Although loosening the shrouds did make the dent in the deck disappear...I think...got to check that... Damn...I have to get going on this stuff!

 

[garylinger]

Re: A visit and my off season repair list. What is making yours?

With all of that spare time you have how about coming to Maryland and helping me with my chores.....Good luck! It sounds like you have your winter planned. Hopefully it will not be long enough for you to do everything on your "to do" list!!!

 

[BobM]

Re: A visit and my off season repair list. What is making yours?

I'm dreaming. I'll be lucky to get to a quarter of it...though after your experiences a siphon break in my exhaust is jumping near the top of the list. Definitely have to finish the pedestal guard project and refinishing the hand rails too. The FW tank is a must do, but most of the rest will be tough to get done. I should see if I can get a deal if I order the FW tank and fuel tank together. The rudder stuffing box is more tied to the cabin sole project. Somehow water is getting forward from aft and that is the most likely candidate.

I am half tempted to have someone shrik wrap the boat rather than to use my boom tent. That way I'll have room to work under the cover and some light too.

 

[woodster]

sounds like a previue of the things i have in front of me on the 79 model i have just gotten last month......i was wondering about the fresh water tank and now you have just convenced me that it also needs to be done as well ...as for the stuffing box on the rudder shaft ...i was under there yesterday and noticed that the top support and bearing is in dire strights ....it seems that the support was made of black iron and not ss ......so it will be replaced as well ....and below that.... where it comes up through the hull there is a lot of rust ....hopeing that is from above and not the parts imbedded in the glass....not sure as of yet what metal it is....

do you have a holding tank on your s2 and if so what size and where is it located...i am going to refit the hole head system except for the procalin toto bowl...it has a phII valve system but not sure with it being as old as it is to rebuild or replace ........also wondering about putting in a mancerator or not ....one good thing is that the on demand fresh water pump is there and working ........there arnt a lot of water strainers in the boat so i have a lot to do in that pespect along with replaceing all the through hull fittings

have a lot of wood working to do on the interior as well along with new head liners and interior liners ....it will be about a year before i will be even close to painting the hull ....the boat is very solid on deck and the hull is very strong as is the rudder its self

i have a lot of upgrades in mind and hopeing to keep things along the original theam as possiable ........

oh and by the way ......in case you havent noticed i have the best misspeller in the world.........

i was wondering about the rigging of the shrouds and the mast ....they seem to be very heavy duty........was thinking about haveing them magnafluxed to see if there is a need to replace them....any thoughts on this


i have found a source for teak close to me here in georgia and able to get sheet goods along with raw cut timber as well .... along with sole teak and holly ....so that worked out well as i do have a lot of things to replace including the maine bulk head in the salon...along with the galley cabinetry

i will be taking lots of pics before and after

i also was wondering about the jib sail ....i dont have one but do have a roller furler ....vintage CDI the have some parts and some upgrades that will work...letting me use the old luff track the man Tom i think his name is was very psitive when i called ......any way i have no idea as to get a jib or a genoa and if genoa what would be a good size ie 135% or 150% ect any thoughts on this .....i have no plans to race as i know of ....just starting a new chapter in my life

 

[BobM]

Lot's of things here. Forgive me if I answer each briefly for now off the top of my head.

Stuffing box for the rudder post. Seems like S2 used fasteners that corrode badly. Mine need some help. Search for this topic as I believe this was well covered by another owner. You may just wish to replace the bearing, as it may be shot if it is badly corroded. Rigging Only and Rigrite are good sources for parts. Fossfoam is a replacement rudder manufacturer and can also potentially help. The parts ARE available.

My holding tank is in the L shaped extension of the port settee right behind the bulkhead. It is 12 gallons...and fills up fast. If you don't plan on going offshore far enough to dump I'd consider a simpler system without a macerator or thru-hull as it will smell better. Don't skimp on the hoses or you will regret it at leisure.

Be sure to put a block under the compression post if you have the sole out and be sure whatever you use can stand being wet. If there is a block now it is being bathed by the head drain. By the way, if you need a shower pan you can try faxing Tiara to see if they still have the mold, but I doubt it. I'd try to use what you have or replace it with a teak grating or something.

Be sure to check the thru hulls. When you have a boat apart it is the easiest time to replace them. Not cheap though.

If you are restoring her and the mast is down, repaint it if necessary (a big job) and rewire it. Most mast wiring 20 years old fails.

If you still have the old closed turnbuckles replace all your rigging as it is original and had a life expectancy of about ten years. I never heard of anyone magnafluxing, but it could be done on the turnbuckles, but if they are closed body you should chuck them anyway. The closed ones, if not well lubricated, gall like anything and the rig should be able to move. I had a yard wind a kink into my back stay last year because it galled. My fault it wasn't lubricated, but replacement is definitely in order. I plan to either replace shrouds in pairs or drop the mast and do them all.

If you decide to replace, bundle up what you have and send it to one of the rigging places above. They will make you new to the required lengths for a very reasonable price...about $1500-2000...didn't say this hobby was cheap did I? Also, when replacing rigging you will should consider heaving the old CDI system. A new one is pretty cheap and the old one is part of the rigging and potentially a weak link. It may just have a small rat tail of wire with a toggle on it. At least replace that if you keep the furler. If it fits onto the forward shroud replace that.

A jib is a sail which doesn't pass the mast. You need a genoa and I'd suggest a 135 as a good all purpose sail on the 9.2A, especially if you are inexperienced and will sail by yourself a lot. I suggest a foam or rope luff for a better furled shape. Winter is a great time to buy a sail. Don't go by the prices on line. Call around. You can probably get a good price off Phil, who runs this site. Expect to pay roughly $1000. Sorry, I don't have any used genoas.

What about your engine? Have you sounded the deck to make sure you don't have any issues with wet core? Have you checked the bulkheads for water stains or rot under the chain plates?

That's all for now.

Bob

 

[woodster]

refit of S2

havent tried the engine as of yet .........its a 2qm15 2 cyl yanmar they last for ever ....i think it will be ok ....had thought about finding a 20 hp to replace it with but not sure about the 3 cyl models as there is limited space ....

.....the prop is of no use what so ever ....will be needing one in time i think its a ...15 /9..... 2 blade the one that was on it was rotten to the core ...no one kept the anods up and the prop acted as the anode...

.....i have cked the deck and it is sound and solid ....i will be redoing the maine bulk head on the port side as about 10 inches or so above the sole is rotten from sweet water ....but the upper part is good so i will be useing that part to rebuild the gally cabinets face and some of the v birth faces as well ...

...i have very little cabin upholstry that is useable so i will be replacing them ....... i am sure i will be upgradeing the mast support from the keel to the upper deck with a block of some kind below the cabin sole and thinking about cutting in to th underside of the deck in that area and taking out the balsa wood core and replacing it with a teak plate of som sort ....

....was wondering if there is room for a shower sump box in that area .....

....the electrial panel seems to be on good repair at this time ....i will be cking that out soon...

... may try to start the engine just to see if it wiil run......there is a lot to do to make the s2 whole again but in a way thats a good thing because when its all said and done it will be equipeted they way it should be by todays standards ........and with the latest equiptment .....i know it will still be a 30 year old boat but thats ok by me as it does have a strong fiberglass hull and is not victom to corpate scrimping in the lay up....

....i found a 800 gal ruel bilge pump on the keel sump and it is in working order ....i will be adding a larger one in conjuntion with the small one ....not sure if i will set it up with a auto float switch .......there is a manual one in the cockpit but it needs reworking ......i have to take it out so i can find out who made it and hopefully find a rebuild kit for it...

... as i stated in one of my first post ....i will redo the head and bilge first so i can work on the boat with out the oders that come with one in this condition ..

...i was thinking about a 20 gal holding tank hooked to a mancerator along with a "y" valve to the pump out or through hull ..

..i will go slow with this refit so as to hopefuly make good choices on my systems.......and milk the cash flow as slow as possiable ..

....there is lot to do indeed...

regards

woody

 

[Rick19354]

Bob --
The to-do lists are funny -- I have a rather informal 100 item list, never more. However, some things simply pop up and need to get done, so they get added immediately (sometimes at number one!) and then something will get bumped off (couldn't have been that important, right?!). Anyway, I could work all year on her and still have 100 things to do.

We've communicated about the rudder packing gland before. I had the same issue. Tightening the gland did the trick and you don't have to worry about getting it to weep like the engine shaft gland. I've not had an issue on the rudder gland in over two years now.

Did you consider a flexible H2O tank for under the v-berth? I installed the Plastimo version (30-35 gallons) and have been pleased. No leaks and reasonable price. I also put another flex tank under the starboard settee. Gives me about 65-70 gallons. Plumbed so that I can use both at same time or one or other.

Woody -- Are you keeping her in GA? If so, I would go with a 130 genny -- big enough for our light summer winds but can still be reefed effectively to about 90-100 (anything smaller and sail shape is poor). I keep a 100 at the ready this time of year as some of the fronts blow pretty strong and it's nice having the smaller sail at the ready. Also, let me know if you have any painting questions. We did that with Second Wind a couple of years ago (topsides, boom, and mast and did a full rewire on the mast at the time). Also, if redoing the sole, consider a non-traditional route... I did mine with engineered Brazilian cherry. Much less cost than teak and is holding up very well. I was concerned with scratches from out dogs (none so far) as well as moisture issues. But not a one and it's received it share of water from both the shower and our trip to key west this summer. I've added a photo of our new floor. Not sure where you keep your boat, but if it's near S. Georgia, you are welcome to visit us in Jacksonville to see Second Wind. That invite goes to Bob as well -- if I recall -- you have some family in Florida and if down this way you are welcome to join me for one of our fall/winter afternoon sails.

Best to all --

Rick

 

[woodster]

thanks for the invite rok......

i will be keeping her in ga for now on the hard ...i have about a year before seeing water ......i wold like to see more pics of your interior ....and what year is yours ...the dining table looks different from the 79 model......also what size engine is in yours as well .......

i will have a million questions i am sure before i am through ........

btw there is a used marine parts store in st augutstine and they have some cool things to find i plan to come that way in the near futer but not sure when as of yet

thanks for the info

regards
woody

 

[garylinger]

Speaking of the 2Qm15, I was told they last forever but found out that I just passed forever...Be sure to flush your cooling system as well as you can and re-torque the head. My 2QM15 head developed cracks internally causing water to enter and seize the engine. I believe the cause was plugged water passages. So....if you decide to scrap that thing, let me know! I could use the parts!!!

 

[Rick19354]

Woody --

Ours is a 1985/86 (depending on what document is used, but officially an 85 9.2A). She has to be one of the last ones produced. The table arrangement was changed to a straight settee as opposed to the wrap around set-up. Not sure of the year of change, however.

We have a 2GM20F rated at 16 hp with a 15 inch 3 blade prop. I've done quite a bit with the engine, including a rebuilt transmission (just to be clear -- I did not rebuild it!). It's a good engine match to the boat, considering the variables.

Just ask away on the questions. There are plenty of folks here who are helpful, especially Bob M. Also, the place in St. Augustine is Sailor's Exchange. An interesting place, without doubt. I really liked them before they they began selling on e-bay, but it is still one very interesting place to visit. My wife gets all of her Sunbrella from them. Usually it's $18-20 yard, but she usually gets it for less than $3. In fact, my head seat came from there -- I needed one for a Raritan II. Sinclair, the owner, said he had one and went off to find it -- buried in 6 inches of dirt next to the parking lot! I cleaned it, painted it, and it is as good as new for $2. Oh well, if you don't find anything, St. Auggie is a great place to visit. Worth the trip.

Enjoy the 9.2. One last note... all of the folks I encounter love the boat and, even more interesting, the more they know her, the more they like. She's a good breed.

Rick

 

[BobM]

Misc.

Rok, I considered a flexible tank, but at $250 it is nigh the cost of a fixed plastic tank. If it proves a challenge to fit a fixed tank in without a potentially disastrous total rebuild of the vee berth I may consider the flexible tank or downsize the fixed tank slightly. I only wish I could spend enough time on the boat to need more capacity, but in truth I am never that far from a source of fresh water for a refill.

Gary, I am really chagrined by your trouble with your 2QM15. I am definitely adding an antisiphon valve to the exhaust. I have been debating whether or not to pull the exhaust elbow, but continued excellent performance after an extended three day trip that was 80% motoring at 2800 rpm a year ago have me convinced it is not required as it lacks any symptoms of failure.

I have also been debating whether or not to add a strainer to the raw water intake. The boat has run since 1981 without one.

I have, however, replaced the hose on the intake and strongly recommend you check yours. I swear my boat was a sneeze away from sinking based on the split in the hose just above the nipple on the intake the surveyor caught. This was likely due to trying to fit two clamps (as is recommended) in a place only suited for one. The surveyor recommended one good clamp as better than two poorly fit ones. Therefore what I have done is fit a second above the first, however the second isn't doing anything but hanging on the hose "on deck" in case the first gives way.

Now you have me considering whether or not to pull the head to change the head gasket prophylactically and to check it for damage. I am also thinking about whether or not to acid flush the engine, a recommended maintenance task. Although, as previously stated, there are no indications of overheating at all.

 

[BobM]

Thoughts on repowering...perhaps some value to you guys

If you are thinking about a 3 cyl, the 9.2A even came with a 4 cyl gas engine, the Atomic 4. It is certainly doable, but you may need to build a new engine cowl that extends another 6 inches into the cabin. The 3 cylinder is typically stated to vibrate much less than a comparable 2 cylinder.

However, newer engines likely make their advertised HP, so even repowering with 14hp would be a gain between that and the loss of some weight. As I have posted elsewhere, from my own experience shopping for a 9.2A, the one repowered 9.2A I saw with a 3 cyl was 25K, while boats wth the 2QM15 were 18-20K and boats with the 1cyl 12 hp were 15K. Boats with the gas powered A4, which makes 30 hp with 4 cyl were lowest at as little as 10K.

So, I guess were I to repower, I'd be tempted to go to 3 cylinders for the added performance, potentially less vibration (although my friends 3 cyl on his H27 doesn't seem like much of an improvement over mine except at lower rpm...Woodster...be prepared...the first time I started mine I was shocked at the noise. It sounded like two guys driving railroad spikes!) and a potential increse in resale of ~$5K. However, the marinized Kubota based Beta 13.5 hp or 16hp 2cyl really looks like an easy swap for the 2QM15...takes the Hurth ZF I already have...dipstick on the right...impeller swaps from the front...optional pump for oil changes built in. Therefore I could save an easy $5K if I did it myself and this engine (and perhaps other 2 cyl) would make it easier to do it myself. With the 16hp I could even bump hp by 10%. Currently with my 2QM15, which is 14hp, and the factory 2 blade Michigan wheel prop I can only hit 5.5 knots, about a knot shy of hull speed. Ideally the new engine would allow me to cruise at 6.5 knots at its specified cruising RPM.

I'd also by lying if I told you that I wouldn't look hard at Yanmar first though. The equivalent engine is the 14 hp 2YM15.

Vetus is a big marine supplier selling Vetus branded marinized mistubishi diesels. However, they seem to have abandoned the engine market, as I can't find a link to buy one or a local dealer on the internet.

Westerbeke is another strong contender. It is much better known that Beta, plus there is an 18hp 2 cylinder (20B) that sounds attractive. It is just a hair smaller than the 2QM15 (26L x 20H x 20W versus 27.6L x 18W x 22H for the 308lb 2QM15) and much lighter at 225 lbs. The 27 hp 30B is the same as the 20B barring an increase in length to 30 inches and weight to 274 lbs.

Universal? Some people have them and love them. Personally, I have misgivings based on a limited data set of stories from friends. Suffice to say that at the moment one wouldn't make my short list, but that I could be convinced otherwise.

Pardon my wordiness...just thinking on paper. As usual, it comes down to a few things...what am I going to do with my boat? If I plan to do a lot of distance, like it or not that usually means the iron jib in summer. On passage, making distance is king. The 3 cylinder would be a plus if it truly vibrates less and the fact that added hp is better against adverse currents. More hp may also be more attractive for the 9.2C versus the 9.2A, but then again, the install of a longer engine might be a MUCH bigger pain in a 9.2C vs. a 9.2A.

However, in my limited experience, I don't know if I'd personnnally go through the extra effort or cost if I could get a 16 or 18hp 2 cylinder at a better price. At cruising speed, which is what you will be at 90% of the time, I don't think there is all that much of a improvement in vibration to be worth the effort to me. From a performance and resale perspective an 18hp Westerbeke would offer an advantage over competing 2QM15 and 1 cyl boats on the market. Although it wouldn't be all that much work to extend the engine shroud by 3 inches to accomadate a 3 cylinder engine in a 9.2A. You might not even have to do it. I suspect that mine might have enough clearance now. In which case cost would be rule all.

Whew...it was interesting to go through all that...but to be frank...I plan to run my 2QM15 for as long a possible. A prop change might net me a half a knot motoring on passage...which I plan to start doing again next year...however a feathering prop might gain me a half knot under sail which I'd enjoy more 80% of the time.

Woody...if you plan to try your 2QM15 be sure to let us know so we can run you through how to safely do it if necessary. You absolutely must have water to the engine and must wet the cutlass bearing to lube it if you plan to run it through the gears.

BobM

 

[Rick19354]

Re: Misc.

Bob --

Just FYI, but Fore and Aft Marine (in Florida) have the Plastimo 32 gallon flexible v-berth for $120 plus reasonable shipping. I've bought quite a bit from them for plumbing and electrical. The URL is: http://foreandaftmarine.com/WaterTANKS.htm

I see you also noted the mixing elbow comment. I have a great mechanic here in St. Augustine who can troubleshoot Yanmars accurately over the phone! He also owns a boat with the 2GM20F and swears that the elbow needs either replacement or a good acid bath every two years, no matter how many hours were used. Good advice. Funny thing about that elbow, mine actually became loose on the way south this summer. Left the boat for a month on the mooring in KW and then started it up and pow -- the engine sounded like it is going to blow up and I had exhaust spray everywhere below. Well, the elbow actually was disconnected. Lucky for me that I shut off the engine immediately or damage would have been done. Now I take a peek at that elbow connection whenever I down below.

Enjoy the day all -- It's about perfect here today, 75 degrees, sunny and north wind at 12-15. My wife and I (and the dogs) have a date with Second Wind today.

 

[BobM]

Re: Misc.

The elbow came loose? That's bizzare. I have been thinking about spraying mine with lubricant just to help out in case I want to remove it some day. Gary, if I recall correctly, had a heck of a time. It is far more usual to snap a stud and end up taking the head to the machine shop.

What did you do about the exhaust? That is a nightmare. Friends of mine lost the engine in their Catalina 30 while in the Cape Cod Canal en-route back to Boston. What a nightmare. They had just had their cushions recovered in a white faux leather. The smoke got EVERYWHERE and their insurance company refused to cover the damage to the interior nor the engine.

 

[woodster]

thanks for the info bob......it will be late this next week before i try the engine.....

just got back from charleston s.c late last night ....spent time on the city docks looking around and checking out the great mix of sailing vessels docked there ....

also was looking at roller furels and lazy jack setups as well ....very impressive ......
yesterday was a great day on the coast ....and as it seemed all the nice people in the sailing world were out in force......

i am still wondering about the prop size of the 2 blade and the three blade props for my setup found the size on mine stamped in the frtont of the hub 15/9 does any one have more info about size ........

i am in the process of making some mock up wings for a company in atlanta that is making a flight simulator for a training center as i was working on the 10' x 4' stubs friday i noticed how much they resimbled the keel of a lot of boats i have seen on the hard .......

i am wondering about the water pipes on my boat as they will be replaced and was thinking about useing QUEST gray flexable tubing and fittings for the whole potable system and thoughts on this or experiances any has to share .........

 

[BobM]

I have a 16 inch 9 pitch right hand two blade on mine.

 

[Rick19354]

Second Wind has the 2GM20F (16hp) with a 3 blade, 15 inch prop, with a pitch of 11 (right hand).

 

[garylinger]

When my elbow blew out it was not a surprise. The surveyor had told me to keep an eye on it and I could see the weak area in the side of it. I did have a hard time with it and had to use a lot of elbow grease and heat to get the joints apart. When attaching it to the manifold, I would suggest using NEW bolts so you don't run the risk of wringing one off.

The last couple of times I ran the Yanmar I heard a puffing or popping sound coming from the air intake. Now, looking back on it, I believe it was the result of the crack in the head at the valve seats. I am also convinced that the crack was caused or at least aided by the blockage of the water passages. I highly recommend flushing of the water jacket although I'm not sure that anything short of removing the head will allow a complete cleanout. I'm still trying to determine what my realistic options are (replacement/repair of the head and if replacement, new or used, repower with different engine or complete rebuild of 2QM15).

 

[woodster]

I have a 16 inch 9 pitch right hand two blade on mine.

do you feel that the prop is the correct one or is it a little over proped or is it a little underproped

 

[BobM]

Darned it I know...but...

do you feel that the prop is the correct one or is it a little over proped or is it a little underproped

I asked for a quote on a feathering prop and they came back with the same diameter, but a different pitch. The 15 x 9 will work fine for a start and was probably the original. Were I you, I'd keep it for now and worry about other things. A prop is damned expensive to change. The folder I was looking at was $800. However, if I was convinced I'd gain half a knot in light air, I'd consider it.

It all comes back to what are you going to do with the boat 80% of the time? My answer currently is to day sail it, with perhaps some coastal trips of not more than a days sail. Plus the boat is kept on a mooring and, although I have little experience maneuvering near docks, I have had no significant problems as long as I think things through. What does that have to do with a propeller? Well, analyzing it, it means that I am putting sailing performance above motoring performance. A three bladed prop would perhaps get my cruising speed up from 5.5 knots under power to closer to the 6.5 I'd probably max out at. However, it might cost me a half knot in drag I don't want to give up. I could go to a folder for $800. But I'd probably loose motoring performance and drop to perhaps 5 knots. I'd perhaps lose a little maneuverability too, although I typically use the short bursts required to open the blades of a folder anyway when maneuvering. So the fixed two blade factory prop is middle of the road and a reasonable option to stay with, although I am tempted by better sailing performance still. $800 sounds like a lot, but when you think of what you would pay to make your hot rod go 10% faster it is actually pretty inexpensive.