A Little Too Windy
- Thread starter Woreign
- Start date
I agree with your wife and daughter, and I agree with you. Being a passive passenger on a small sailboat is often a mix of boredom and terror, sandwiched between the drudgery of pre-sail preparation and post-sail breakdown. It's fun to be the one who is steering and pulling the strings.
On the other hand, big sailboats can be more fun for adult passengers - at least more comfortable and relaxing. Try a sailboat cruise in warm, clear water with interesting destinations. There has not been a woman with whom I've shared that experience who did not gush about how it was the best vacation EVER.
Based on my experience and observing a few other youngsters, sailing with the 'rents is just plain boring. I didn't like to sail until I went off to Scout camp where I got to do the sailing and goofing around with Sunfish. Capsizing and re-righting was a required skill and therefore was encouraged. There were no adults around, but plenty of other boys my age that were also goofing around on Sunfish. I'm now 62 years old and I still prefer to sail my little boat with somebody who likes to goof around in the water, and a big part of that is getting wet. Absent a like-minded companion, I prefer to sail solo, so I can geek out on deeper understanding of the sailing art.
Let's say I was to upgrade to a slightly larger, more comfortable boat. What are your opinions on any of the following:
Sage 15
Montgomery 15
Newport 16
Neptune 16
Venture 17
Potter 15
They are still light enough to for me to tow, are ballasted, and have a higher comfort index (7.08 and higher vs 4.87).
Sage 15
Montgomery 15
Newport 16
Neptune 16
Venture 17
Potter 15
They are still light enough to for me to tow, are ballasted, and have a higher comfort index (7.08 and higher vs 4.87).
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IMHO, of those listed, the Potter--if you wish your family along
. However, consider the Potter 19 as well. Imminently trailerable!
. However, consider the Potter 19 as well. Imminently trailerable!
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Unfortunately, this is the bane of many family sailing situations. Probably why we see so many guy-only crews or guy-solo sailors out there. Take a child to the beach and allow him or her to be tumbled in the surf while the undertow pulls them in will cure any interest in beach going for MANY years, even into adulthood. Same thing with sailing. Take your family out in a smallish boat and let 'em get knocked around in high wind, feeling perhaps that they were lucky to escape disaster, and you end up with a lack of interest in, or even fear of, a repeat of that experience. Sorry to sound cruel!! S... happens! Now you have to prove that sailing is fun for the whole family or go it alone, it sounds like to me.
What to do? First, learn how to sail yourself. You might have to prove that you can control the boat and that you know what you are doing. Bring your wife but leave your daughter at home for a few day sails. Get her on "your side"; actively involve her, such as w/ helming. No yelling or screaming. I can tell you, with a mother and a youngish child on the boat, the mother will be paying more attention to the child than to you. Teach her how to help sail the boat, then include your daughter. Do what you can to interact with others around sailing; i.e. social situations. Trailerable boat--go different places so you can make a weekend out of it, etc.
Yes, it's a PIA to prep the boat for a day-sail and then take it all down at the end of the day. When I had my 20-ft trailerable, I kept it in mast-up dry storage w/ a ramp I could reach w/o having to go under wires. Removes that hassle and impediment, etc.
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Woreign,
I think your DS2 is a fine family daysailer. I wouldn't consider upgrading unless I wanted overnight accommodations. Is that what you are asking about? Something to provide you and your family a comfortable night at a remote beach or just some more room for beach chairs and a bigger cooler? Your list its not a bad one, from what I've read, but consider both the O'Day Mariner 19 at 1500 lbs, a lot of boat for the weight with great support association, and the Com-Pac 16. Her wide build and smaller sail plan make her very comfortable and the mast setup and take down are very easy with a high tabernacle. I am familiar with how Com-Pacs sail. Very smooth ride and stable.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I think your DS2 is a fine family daysailer. I wouldn't consider upgrading unless I wanted overnight accommodations. Is that what you are asking about? Something to provide you and your family a comfortable night at a remote beach or just some more room for beach chairs and a bigger cooler? Your list its not a bad one, from what I've read, but consider both the O'Day Mariner 19 at 1500 lbs, a lot of boat for the weight with great support association, and the Com-Pac 16. Her wide build and smaller sail plan make her very comfortable and the mast setup and take down are very easy with a high tabernacle. I am familiar with how Com-Pacs sail. Very smooth ride and stable.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Will,
The possibility of a port-a-potty would be nice (for the wife and daughter), and a cockpit with more leg room would be more comfortable for everyone. I'm concerned that the Mariner at 1,500 lbs would be pushing or exceeding the limit of my car's towing capacity. Sure, the hitch is rated for 2,000 lbs, but Kia doesn't recommend towing with the Forte at all. The Com-Pac 16 is listed at 1,100 lbs might be OK, but what's the weight once you add the trailer and other gear?
The possibility of a port-a-potty would be nice (for the wife and daughter), and a cockpit with more leg room would be more comfortable for everyone. I'm concerned that the Mariner at 1,500 lbs would be pushing or exceeding the limit of my car's towing capacity. Sure, the hitch is rated for 2,000 lbs, but Kia doesn't recommend towing with the Forte at all. The Com-Pac 16 is listed at 1,100 lbs might be OK, but what's the weight once you add the trailer and other gear?
Kia does not recommend towing with a Forte. Can you beg, borrow or steal a truck when you want to go sailing?
Those are excellent questions to ask. A boat capable of proving pot-a-potty space is going to be right at the edge of your range. They are common on the Mariner and I know some have made room on the Com-Pacs. My wife refuses to consider a pot-a-potty on our Mariner. She doesn't like the idea of carrying out around on such a small boat. She says, "I don't have any problem hanging it over the side." Never the less, I think a 5 gal sealable bucket with a wag-bag and a seat, just in case, is not a bad thing to bring along.
These are the quandaries that make this type of decisions harder than they feel like they should be.
The DS2 can very comfortably be used to camp out for a night with the addition of a (DIY) custom made boom tent. You're clearly thinking and that's going to be to your benefit in the end.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I recommend sailing class to help you get baselined and then practice a lot. I'm not sure why you want to keep pushing for a different boat when you car is clearly the limiting factor, which to me pushes you toward low weight boats which can be very sporty in heavy wind and a green crew. I'd keep you little boat and practice and try instead to find something that has to be on a slip or ball that has some weight and stability.
read between the lines and look into your soul...
Your family tolerates your sailing cause they like you. if you chartered a 30 footer for the afternoon they would still freak out when it heels or be bored when it doesnt. My son slept on the bench down below when we went out he was so bored. it was still like 95 down below.
Get the boat you love and get out on it a lot. your family wont go out more with you just because you have a sink and a bucket in a 17 footer. youll be spending a lot more money and time not sailing if you go big and stable... bigger sails, higher fees, more paint, more sanding, etc. youll be reading up on composting toilets, researching big motors, and less time learning how to tack your daysailer through a crowded marina, or launching from a marina under sail without assistance. i think youll wimp out on sailing windier days for a longer time with a bigger boat.
if you find a sail club they may have a tractor you can use for load and offloading. cheaper than full time truck.
im in the same boat. Wife is happier on a pontoon boat.
im checking out a Weta tri sailboat. fast, fits straight in a garage, beach launches, easily single hands, fits up to 4., towed with anything. Downsides..wetbutt, wife probably wont want to go out anymore unless its a solid beach day.
I was out solo on a day that was so sporty that I felt afraid to get close enough to the gunwale or transom for relief, even when the boat was hove-to. So I peed in the cockpit. The pee ran out the leeward drain; I chased it with a bit of water and it was completely gone. I'd had enough experience with spilt beer to know exactly how well that would work.
OTH, my GF likes sailing only on days that are warm enough and calm enough to jump out of the boat; therefore, she doesn't have to squat at all. I do carry a 5-gallon plastic pail specifically to pee in, but it has never been used.
For over three years, the aft cabin head for three kids ages 9 to 13, 10 to 14 and 13 to 17 was a milk jug. It got dumped (supposedly) by whoever filled it. Amazingly, my older brother was able to fill it right to the top every time, without extra, and just get the lid on so he never dumped it. The kid who couldn't wait any longer, had to open it, discover no room, run up on deck, dump it overboard, go below again and use it. It sat behind the ladder. Never had an accident, that I recall.
For heavier duty jobs, the forward head was up into the deck across the cockpit, down to the main cabin and to port of the galley. There was a door after my mother got tired of the curtain.
-Will (Dragonfly)
For heavier duty jobs, the forward head was up into the deck across the cockpit, down to the main cabin and to port of the galley. There was a door after my mother got tired of the curtain.
-Will (Dragonfly)
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Agree that a bigger boat may not be the whole remedy. I try to make it an outing that the wife and kid(s) can enjoy. This usually involves bringing another couple and/or friend for the kid, food, drinks, etc. Apparently I'm not very good company. Anyway, heel is something they will get used to with time, but it's way better to keep heel to a minimum while breaking in the crew. I take a port a potty along, as none of my crew are the hang it over the rail types. I have furling on the Genoa and main, so reefing is easy. If they're willing, let the crew control the sheets, so they can control the heel angle. If not, let them hang with their friends and eat snacks. If you can work in a beach walk, and/or swim, that may help the appeal.
Evaluate cockpit size if you look at bigger boats. Longer boat may not give you more cockpit room in the trailer sailer market.
Last, I got a power sailer to entertain the younger kids. They have a 2 hour sailing attention span. After that the want to go fast awhile...
+1 on the Potter 19.
Good Luck!
Evaluate cockpit size if you look at bigger boats. Longer boat may not give you more cockpit room in the trailer sailer market.
Last, I got a power sailer to entertain the younger kids. They have a 2 hour sailing attention span. After that the want to go fast awhile...
+1 on the Potter 19.
Good Luck!
Are you saying that it didn’t make sense to have the reef in when you went up wind up wind?
It was right in that grey area. We started out with full main only. Wind was 15 to 20. I reefed as I thought it would just be calmer, not because I really had to. When it came time to come home, it is all down wind. If course the boat was easily handling it, but I got the "we're doing just fine" statement. No chance to prove we would also be just fine under full sails.
This is your answer. If your vehicle doesn't have a rated towing capacity it is illegal to tow anything with it. The hitch was either added aftermarket or was included for accessories like bike racks. The rating on the hitch is irrelevant. You will be held civilly and criminally liable in a wreck and lose everything.
Assuming this is the case with your car's specs, your family should be more concerned getting there than sailing on it.
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From a quick Google search, the Forte comes with a hitch option, but the intended use is for carrying accessories under 800#s, like luggage racks. Some kia manuals specifically state not to tow with the Forte, while other years just say nothing.
-Will (Dragonfly)
-Will (Dragonfly)
A used Weta is looking pretty good about now. Sell the $2000 day sailer, buy a used $6000 Weta, keep the Forte. You are all in at $4000 for a hobby you enjoy, with a stable sweet ride.
or
Sell daysailer, $2000, sell Forte $8000, buy used Subaru Outback $15000, buy slightly bigger old boat boat for $8000. You are all in for $13000 plus old boat repairs.
or
Sell daysailer, $2000, sell Forte $8000, buy used Subaru Outback $15000, buy slightly bigger old boat boat for $8000. You are all in for $13000 plus old boat repairs.