A Little Too Windy
- Thread starter Woreign
- Start date
Easing the Vang won't do much if he sheet is hauled in hard, the sheet will still hold the boom down.. Vang only controls twist when he sheet is eased somewhat
I've said it. Once we turned down wind, I couldn't convince my wife it was OK to remove the reef.
You depower a sail (in my opinion) more efficiently by having the vang on hard and letting out the main or traveler in heavy gusts. Letting off on the vang allows twist and depowers the top but bellows out the bottom third because it allows the boom to rise. I've found not alot of vang trim talk on the bigger boat forums. Its critical in Laser sailing. Carrying over my learning points from dinghy sailing has allowed me allot higher point on beating as well as more efficient, consistent sail on gusty beam reaches.
I think this is more true with blown out sails. Technically you are not depowering the top of the sail, but rather matching the sail angle to the shift in apparent wind. The wind is faster at the top of the sail, therefore the apparent wind is more broadside to the boat. Twist is intended to match that. As long as you are not putting in too much twist, the sail should not belly out, as the sail is still under tension. The leach needs to still remain tight to prevent the sail from growing a belly.
It will make it worse when he lets out the main on a gust. Losing out the traveler is more optimal but has limited capability.
I agree. The issue is when you let off on the main without vang, the leech cant (especially is you have the traveler more centered) stay tight due to the boom rise. This is very apparent in down wind runs. I've never sailed with brand new sails other than on my Laser. Those things will tell you immediately when your doing something not so right in gusty winds and the vang is critical. Maybe not as applicable in large boats with tall rigging and ballast but its a learning point.
My previous boat was a monohull, which had a lot of design issues. To make matters worse, sails were blown out. The main was setup with mid-boom sheeting and no vang. The boat ended up being very tender. It was also slow. Just for fun, I flew my Hobie sail which was 30% larger. It turned out the boat was much less tender, even though I dramatically increased the sail area. The sail was full batton. I never had any problem with it creating a belly and powering up when I eased the sheet. It was very controlled and predictable.
Is that as in the dock hands when they come running?
All this talk about depowering sail's and no one has mentioned the outhaul or bending the mast?
Well, this is a first sail we are discussing.
There is a nice youtube video of a daysailer in 12-15 knots of wind.
at least that's what the title says. Looks a little more tame to me.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Well, this is a first sail we are discussing.
There is a nice youtube video of a daysailer in 12-15 knots of wind.
-Will (Dragonfly)
This is where my big boat experience lacks. In a Laser hammering on the vang is what induces mask bend for higher pointing. My hunter doesn't have a adjustable back stay but I do crank on the vang to flatten while beating. Im still messing with the out haul to get a better "looking" sail in heavier wind but haven't seen gains in speed.
The outhaul, especially on a loose footed sail, directly affects the foil shape. Unless there is no play to tighten it more. I've seen more than a few sails set with the outhaul tightened all the way, no room for adjusting to conditions. I can only assume the owner sent the maximum foot length to the loft without consideration for tuning.
-Will (Dragonfly)
-Will (Dragonfly)
The ratios for the daysailer 2 and the hunter 170 are very similar. i may have some insight here.
Do you have rear boom sheeting or mid boom. do you have a vang? the different picture seem to have variations.
the way i see it, you wont be better unless you know how to fail. think art of war. know youself and your enemies. if you dont pick the time and place of battle tbe enemy will.
the 170 is pretty sensitive to weight and wind. the upper limit for me is a steady wind of 15 kts, that assumes gust will be in the 20's. if i am by myself 10 is the limit.
i would easily push it higher with experinced crew.
you have a couple failures you need to anticipate and train against them before investing in new sails.
failure 1: capsizing. you need to embrace the capsize and love it. only then when you not fear it will you know the series of events that will lead to capsize. you cant prevent capsize failure until you know the minimum parameters that cause capsize failure. Youre confidence upon grocking capsize will exude to your crew.
failure 2: losing control. bass boats have circumvented the globe without crew. you should pick a low blow day, get away from the moorings and just let the boat flop in the breeze. study everything. start with no sails, then hoist the mainsail, then the jib. dont touch any lines. how does the rudder flop around. does the boat go in circles, does it scallop up or down wind.
sailing lessons miss this. they want to teach peple to pull lines right away and dance, when really, student need to see the boat dance first. After i learned my boat would survive without me it gave me more confidence to simply uncam everything and just walk around and fix anything.
learn to heave your boat. more important than reefing. i can heave to with the flick of a rudder. you can walk around and take your time after that.
the 170 is a challenge to reef while hove to since the boom is over the beam. have reefing lines ready at the mast. you might be abke to reef by turning the boom.
your sails might be baggy, but that isnt a real problem. my sails are ancient too. baggy sails will let you ghost home with crew farts.
baggy sails go away when reefed. you migjt not win sunday races, but you not be far behind.
im of the school that teaches a moving well trimmed boat has more stability and control than a slower moving boat with flogging sails. flogg means drag, drag means resistance, resitance leads to failure. if you dont like how fast you are going reef. it ok to put along with a flat reef, terribke to put along with your jib and main fkapping like a flag.
Do you have rear boom sheeting or mid boom. do you have a vang? the different picture seem to have variations.
the way i see it, you wont be better unless you know how to fail. think art of war. know youself and your enemies. if you dont pick the time and place of battle tbe enemy will.
the 170 is pretty sensitive to weight and wind. the upper limit for me is a steady wind of 15 kts, that assumes gust will be in the 20's. if i am by myself 10 is the limit.
i would easily push it higher with experinced crew.
you have a couple failures you need to anticipate and train against them before investing in new sails.
failure 1: capsizing. you need to embrace the capsize and love it. only then when you not fear it will you know the series of events that will lead to capsize. you cant prevent capsize failure until you know the minimum parameters that cause capsize failure. Youre confidence upon grocking capsize will exude to your crew.
failure 2: losing control. bass boats have circumvented the globe without crew. you should pick a low blow day, get away from the moorings and just let the boat flop in the breeze. study everything. start with no sails, then hoist the mainsail, then the jib. dont touch any lines. how does the rudder flop around. does the boat go in circles, does it scallop up or down wind.
sailing lessons miss this. they want to teach peple to pull lines right away and dance, when really, student need to see the boat dance first. After i learned my boat would survive without me it gave me more confidence to simply uncam everything and just walk around and fix anything.
learn to heave your boat. more important than reefing. i can heave to with the flick of a rudder. you can walk around and take your time after that.
the 170 is a challenge to reef while hove to since the boom is over the beam. have reefing lines ready at the mast. you might be abke to reef by turning the boom.
your sails might be baggy, but that isnt a real problem. my sails are ancient too. baggy sails will let you ghost home with crew farts.
baggy sails go away when reefed. you migjt not win sunday races, but you not be far behind.
im of the school that teaches a moving well trimmed boat has more stability and control than a slower moving boat with flogging sails. flogg means drag, drag means resistance, resitance leads to failure. if you dont like how fast you are going reef. it ok to put along with a flat reef, terribke to put along with your jib and main fkapping like a flag.
On my Laser- yes, a little goes along way. On my Hunter- I think so. It brings the foil back flattening the sail. I'm still getting use to it.
Check this out from Gentry.
http://www.gentrysailing.com/theory.html
the circled telltales will tell you if you have the draft right. if those are flopping around you need more pull on the outhaul (flatter sail). if you have full outhaul and still floppy telltales, its time to reef. No need to guess on what outhaul should be.
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OP, dude, your new, what do you do next? the wind piped up and spoked you. what's next.
as some have said, but i'm going to expound on what you, the OP should do. next time you go sailing, with your crew, with your wife, can be done with any wind :
put a reef in your sails then shake it out 20 times. get yourself and your crew working as a team that can do the reefing without direction. the wind piping up will never startle you again.
or your wife. reefed sails on a blustery day are a hoot!
practice practice practice
as some have said, but i'm going to expound on what you, the OP should do. next time you go sailing, with your crew, with your wife, can be done with any wind :
put a reef in your sails then shake it out 20 times. get yourself and your crew working as a team that can do the reefing without direction. the wind piping up will never startle you again.
or your wife. reefed sails on a blustery day are a hoot! practice practice practice
Thanks for all the advice. I may need to find someone else to crew with me though. My wife and daughter unfortunately don't find sailing as enjoyable as I do. They need to be entertained, while I'm happy just sailing...