3GMF Problems

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May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Thanks Larry That was my thought yesterday with all of the slide hammering, I put some serious force into it! It's really tough to get a wrench in there to low enough on the injector without loosening the top portions. I'm going to give it hell this afternoon!

Pat
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Been taking the patient route for the past few days. I got a crowfoot wrench to put some rotational force on it but nothing is working.

When would you throw in the towel on the injectors and just pull the head off and go from there? I feel like the injectors are pretty well beat up and will need a rebuild anyhow.
I pulled the intake manifold off and there was some amber crystalline substance that had a resin/varnish smell. I think the previous owner was spraying anything he could in there to get her going (found starting fluid bottles around!)

The service guys at LaBorde said they sometimes have to beat them out from the bottom!
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Well if you are at your wits end and willing to risk breaking the injectors attempting to get them out try this:
Purchase a 1/2" drive deep well socket designed for an impact wrench that will fit over the injector. Take your 1/2" breaker bar (aptly named) and proceed to apply torque. I had this problem on lots of crank shaft pulleys and the solution has always been "get a bigger wrench”. The biggest problem is getting a tool to get access to the part that you can actually use to apply massive torque with.
The varnish has to be starting fluid as the intake on a diesel only transfers air. No fuel should ever be found in the intake manifold of a diesel.
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Thanks Bill, so I'm assuming you're suggesting to remove the top half of the injector to get at the bottom half. I started to do this yesterday and there was some rust-ish water in there. I quickly replaced it.

I'll try removing it again and getting a socket on that bad boy. Thanks!
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
You should not have to take anything off except the fuel line.
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Yea with the 3GM injectors I think I'll have to pull them apart as the base is smaller than the top end of the injector
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
OK, throwing in the towel on the injectors. I'm pulling the head tomorrow after school. I'll have it at the local diesel shop to hammer out the injectors on Monday. LaBorde, the local Yanmar distributor seemed to think I'd more than likely need new injectors and seats. Any advice?
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Pulled the head and it doesn't look so good. I completely understand why the engine is seized. I'm not sure how bad is too bad, but there is tons of rust. Come to find out there has been marvel Mystery Oil in one of the cylinders for a long time. There was also rust/corrosion/growth on the head and valves.
I was planning on bringing the head to have the injectors pulled and cleaned tomorrow, but am thinking I'll need to pull the entire thing out and have the cylinders honed, or new liners put in. Any thoughts?

Here are a few pics.


This is the worst one, which had the Mystery oil in it.







 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Well, quite frankly, I've seen worse, I'd try cleaning up the loose rust and then see if you can break free the pistons using a pine board (2x4 cut to size) and a hammer. The piston that is 1/2 way up the cylinder is the best one to pound on. Rings are chrome and are pretty durable. I'd give it a day's worth of effort to break it free and put the head back on, fire it up and see if the bottom half is making noise. I'd be more concerned with noise coming from the crank than what I'm seeing in the pictures.
 

jsgonz

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Nov 28, 2008
49
hunter 28.5 Longbeach, Mississippi
Pheidingsfelder, I'm new to the Longbeach Harbor. Came in two weeks ago. I have the Hunter 28.5 at end of Pier 2, north side. I have used a good diesel mechanic from Longbeach who got my Yanmar 2gm in good shape. Very reasonable. Let me know if you would like his name.

I will try to swing by and say hello next chance I get. Good Luck.

John
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Hey John, small world! I'm on Pier 3 (I think). I pulled the engine out and am going to start completely dismantling it in the garage this evening. A competent mechanic maybe be a good thing to have on standby!

Thanks!
 

jsgonz

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Nov 28, 2008
49
hunter 28.5 Longbeach, Mississippi
I hope all goes well in the overhaul. Just let me know if you need help and I will pass his name along to you.

Come by for a visit if you see me on the boat, happy to show you the work I have done. Not a perfect boat but I got it a close as i could.
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
I got the engine torn apart and it's probably as bad as can be with it still bring in one piece! Brought the head and block to the machine shop separately. Looks like I'm going to have to replace every moving part besides the crankshaft!
Atleast I'll be sailing with a completely freshened up motor that I will be competent to work on!
 

lr172

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Mar 24, 2011
56
Hunter 34 Lake Michigan
from the looks of that rust, a hone is likely not possible. They should be able to bore it out oversize without a problem, assuming Yanmar makes oversize pistons. THey should, as a major rebuild would require a bore job.

I'd scour eBay for spare parts. Should be plenty of dead engines that have serviceable parts the you need, such as rods, injectors, etc.

Larry
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Man .. that engine must have sat with water in there for a long time to be that bad.. sorry for the problems but as you say, you will know it in the Biblical sense.. Good luck with the refurb !!
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Thanks everyone!

On a side note, I'm pretty sure that the engine was NOT previous rebuilt. When I'm sure the flywheel had never been removed as it took some beating to get that thing off. Also, everything is still standard size, bearings, crank, etc.

What would a 'rebuild' entail usually? I think the previous owner probably got hosed by his buddy mechanic and just got a re-paint!

Couple of other questions, the machinist said the cam should probably be replaced, it had a little bit of rust but looked ok to me. He said it could last another 20 years but maybe not. Also, replacing the oil pump? He suggested to solely because everything else would be new and not to risk it.

Fuel injection pump rebuild? Should I? Do the 3GMF injection pumps ever have problems?
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Having built a few sports car racing engines in my day, I would follow your machine shop's recommendation and replace the oil pump. That's the heart of the engine and needs to pump clean and steady. The service manual shows it to have a four lobe vane in it, so it possibly could be rebuilt if the individual parts can be obtained.

You do have a service manual, don't you?

Unless the cam's bearings and lobes are scored, you can probably reuse it after carefull clean-up. If the surfaces aren't glass-smooth, get a new one.

The high pressure fuel pump probably wasn't subjected to the internal water intrusion that the block had so could probably be reused. They're really pricey to replace. The lift pump could be in the same situation, but being less expensive, may be worth replacing. Don't forget the filter assembly and replacing all the banjoe washers.

If you haven't had the motor "cooked" (dunked in a Gunk tank and given a thorough cleaning out of all oil and water passageways), don't hesitate to do so.

Good luck and keep all of us posted...
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Unless the cam's bearings and lobes are scored, you can probably reuse it after carefull clean-up. If the surfaces aren't glass-smooth, get a new one.

If you haven't had the motor "cooked" (dunked in a Gunk tank and given a thorough cleaning out of all oil and water passageways), don't hesitate to do so.

Good luck and keep all of us posted...
The motor is amazingly clean now, thanks to the machine shop.

There are a couple of spots on the cam lobes that aren't glass smooth, so guess I'll be replacing it, why skimp now?

I'm planning documenting the putting back together aspect and should have something fun for you guys to see!
 

lr172

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Mar 24, 2011
56
Hunter 34 Lake Michigan
The motor is amazingly clean now, thanks to the machine shop.

There are a couple of spots on the cam lobes that aren't glass smooth, so guess I'll be replacing it, why skimp now?

I'm planning documenting the putting back together aspect and should have something fun for you guys to see!
I have rebuilt several engines in my day (most high performance). Send me a picture of the lobes in question and I'll give you my thoughts. The engine only turns 3600, so the spring pressure should be relatively light. If the marks are in the center area and away from the tip you may be fine with the cam you have. It could be a risk, but based upon the cost of the cam, may be worth taking.

Larry
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,654
Hunter 34 Alameda CA
An entire cam or crank might be very expensive. Having them ground at a machine shop and re hardened should be a much less expensive option. I've done that on high performance engines. The crank bearings (both journal and piston connecting rod) are available in sizes to match the turned down dimensions and the change in cam lobe is adjusted out at the rocker arm.

The earlier 3GMF22 motors have replaceable cylinder sleeves. I can't tell what your's are. The pistons look nasty but I think that can actually clean up. Your machine shop should be able to tell you if a simple hone will do the trick. Then it would be to clean the pistons (are they aluminum?) and re ring them.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Allan
 
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