3GM30F Problems

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Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,139
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Yea, Check the Bottom End

Head is off! Cylinder #3 definitely has problems. Here are some photos


I noticed as I was wiping the piston/cylinder clean that I could push the piston down an eighth to a quarter of an inch. The other 2 would not push down on either up or down stroke.
Any ideas? I'd rather not go into the bottom end, I've never done it.
I'll be bringing the head and injection pump in for a rebuild on Monday.

Thanks again for the help!
I had a bearing cap come loose when a bolt head sheared off. It faked out the mechanic too. And, it was really noisy. The mechanic and I thought it was a valve. I'm sure you have already started. Let us know what you find. Good luck!
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,893
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Yup.. spun "big end" con rod bearing, loose cap screws.. broken cap screws.. Check to make sure when ya go back up that the cap is in the correct orientation and there is nothing between the fitted faces.. Torque to the exact specification in increments. Check the other rod ends to make sure someone didn't mix up the rod caps.. They should have a number and punch marks to show where and how the caps go.. . Good Luck !
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Thanks again y'all. I have brought the head in for a rebuild and had the injection pump cleaned and check. The IP checked out ok, not needing a rebuild just the rust cleaned out!

I should have some time this week to pull the pan and check the bottom end.
Thanks for the tip on the plastigauge sounds pretty neat.

And yes, since it's out and easy to work on I'll be doing everything necessary to get it running like a top. As far as $$ wise, I probably should have just went new in the beginning since I've already done ALL of this to the previous engine :cussing:

Wondering if I should buy new precombustion chambers since they'll likely bugger them up while doing the head?
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Ewwww. Any pics up inside? I think all of us would like to know what you are finding.

You never said, but was the engine making noise? Knocking? Or was it running so rough and smoking you didnt notice? Is the metal in the pan aluminum or iron? Where did it come from?
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Well. Looks like there is NO Crank pin bushing on the connecting rod! I mean its sitting in the bottom of the oil pan....

To answer a few questions, I just purchased this engine from a marine salvage outfit locally. The only thing I was told is it runs rough and smokes. Bought it knowing I had some work, but didn't think it would be this much.

Now my question is, do I need to pull the crank due to the scaring? I sure hope not bc I was unable to pull the transmission free due to corrosion.
 

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May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
This is a bit long, sorry

Only a place that actually works on crankshafts will be able to determine if its got any life. Engine machine shops generally do not have that kind of equipment, and those that do, should often be avoided simply because they don't do enough work to be really good at it. When I lived in Minnesota, Crankshaft Supply, in Minneapolis, was known all over the 5 state area, they were that good, and quite reasonable. Even down here in Arkansas, I would not hesitate sending them a crankshaft.

All of that said, what I see in your pics, its doubtful that crankshaft can be saved without welding. The radius areas are totally gouged. Even without that, its simply to rough and if you found a bearing it would fail immediately. Its needs a lot of repair to ever hope to run it again.

Also, diesels, as a rule almost always have crankshafts of forged high grade steel alloy which are then heat treated and nitrided. Its a hardening process to the bearing surface that makes its extremely hard and long wearing. But that hardening is only about .010" thousands of an inch deep, and yours is clearly gone.

I would send the crank off to some reputable crankshaft service company (do this yourself/avoid the local machine shop), and have them inspect it. In the meantime I would try and locate a replacement, if one even exists or is affordable, and wait for the verdict. Welding a crankshaft is not the best option, it defeats the whole purpose of having a forged steel crankshaft. But on an expensive or hard to find crankshaft its often the only affordable option. Done properly its not generally a problem, in fact some companies have actually sold it as an improvement. They grind the surface down much smaller, then build up the surface back up oversize with weld metal of Chromemoly, a very hard alloy. Then its machined back to new limits, oil holes are re-drilled and chamfered, then its heat treated and nitrided.

Also, that rods probably gone too. Those you DO NOT want to weld. The block is full of metal, needs to be thoroughly cleaned and flushed and oil galleries reamed with pipe cleaners. If the crank shop feels it can be welded and repaired, they will request you first have them test the crank for cracks. I would absolutely pay to have that done. They will not guarantee the crank without it.

I think I would spend a few hours on the phone seeing if you can find parts, first. See if you can find a new rod and good used or new crank, and what they will cost. You may find your so far upside down on this you might be better off looking for another motor. I know it sucks. I been burned more than once this way myself a few times.

Maybe someone could throw out the number for that guy up in wisconsin who has used engines? He has a good reputation and from what ive read would be my first choice. Heck, he might even have parts!
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Engine theft revisited...

Joining this a bit late, but noticed you notified local authorities but would suggest that you also send the serial number of the stolen engine to every dealership that services Yanmar as well as the regional distrubutor.

As a dealer we would contact OMC's service tech dept every time a new-to-us motor was brought in for service. They used to maintain a list of stolen motor numbers we could check and would regularly turn up a stolen one a couple times a summer. Maybe Yanmar does the same.

From experience, you never can tell what dumb crooks will do!

From sports car racing, broke a crank once inside the #4 rod bearing, which allowed the piston a lot of free play. Hope it's not that...
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I would contact a Yanmar distributor and see what they come up with. Price a new crankshaft and rod/rods, and tell us what they say.
 
Apr 27, 2010
966
Beneteau 352 Hull #276 Ontario
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Thanks Joker! I do use Torresen for price comparison. I'm just not sure what route to take now. Called the shop where the head was getting 'worked' to tell them to hold off for a bit till I figure the rest out.

Thanks everyone! Calling our regional Yanmar guys now, LaBorde Products.
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,893
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Wow.. it is a shame that with the number of boats that were totaled in Sandy that no engine is available or a good used crank.. AnchorClanker is right on .. I re-did a Fiat 850 crank once by welding.. It lasted about three years then cracked at the weld edge (heat affected zone).. A good shop can do it correctly, but finding a good shop is the trick. Best of luck finding one!
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Thats why the FAA wont allow aircraft engine cranks to be welded. A new crank would have to awful expensive or NLA before I would want to "try" welding one. I only mentioned it as an option.
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
Thanks y'all.

So no definitive answers. LaBorde said I'd need to mic the crank before ordering/getting parts (of course). Looks like I'll have to pull the crank to get any answers which will be a tough job since I couldn't get the trans off.
Found a couple of rebuilt 3GMs for about $5k. Not sure what a new 3cyl would be or what route I should take. I'd hate to scrap an engine due to a bad crank, if that's what it is.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Thanks y'all.

So no definitive answers. LaBorde said I'd need to mic the crank before ordering/getting parts (of course).
Thats not quite correct. Your crank journal is FUBAR. If it can be ground without welding (which is doubtful), it still needs to be refinished to undersize. Micing it now is almost useless, other than to determine if it could be ground. And only after its on the cutting machine will they truly know if it will clean up.

Cranks start off at a standard size. Then the manufacturer sells standard size bearings, and undersize bearings. Undersize's are -010" smaller, and possibly (if offered), -.020 and in rare cases -.030".

Let be be clear. Your crankshaft will not work as it is, at the very least it needs to be ground. You need to remove the crank and have a reputable (highly reputable) shop inspect it. Further, most crank shops will ask you for specs on the cranks dimensions and journal sizes, radius size, etc., please provide it for them if at all possible. They also often like you to provide the bearings, and they will match the crank to them perfectly. But as you wont know what size youll be at until they start grinding, thats something you can figure out later.

Let a shop look at the crank before you proceed with buying parts. And they need it out to look at it. Whoever LaBorde is, you seem to trust them? Tell them you spun a rod bearing and tore up the journal real bad, that the entire bearing shell is missing, and the journal radius's are heavily damaged as well. Tell them it looks like it may not be repairable without welding. Also tell them the rod big end doesnt look so hot either and likely needs to be replaced. Anyone who truly knows engines will understand what your talking about if you say it that way.

If you can find a good used crank and rod/rods, depending on how the pistons and cylinders look, you may be able to hone it and new rings, put it back together. I had similar damage in a Perkins 4-108 some years back, and did exactly that. The crank was able to be ground as it still had a bearing, just was loose and knocking. We had to go down to undersize on the rods and on one on the mains, and I had to find a rod because it had turned blue.

Most likely your engine was run out of oil. Look for blueing on all your rod big ends. If you see any they should be replaced. On the Perkins it had blown an oil pressure sender and emptied itself of oil. I bought it in a skid loader that way, what a mess.
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
I think I may be over this fight.

The transmission is sized onto the shaft. Looking into the openings on the casing the entire flywheel/dampener is rusted so it don't have much faith in being able to remove it.
I also noted trans oil in this casing which would be coming into contact with the flywheel. Leading me to believe the trans will need seals at the least.

I spoke with Al in Wisconsin and Crankshaft Supply in MN. Al has a 3GM30F ready in about 4 weeks for $4450 with a $1000 core charge, but if the crank is toast he'll only give me $500 back.
Crankshaft Supply seemed confident in being able to fix it for about $4-450 of course if it wasn't too bad.
After $900 for the engine then $300 in injectors rebuild, $380 in injection pump, $380 for a new starter and more for other random seals etc I've bought for this thing I'm thinking I should cut my losses and go for the rebuilt engine.
Opinions? What's a new 3YM30 go for?

Thanks for all the help through this fellas, greatly appreciated!
 
Apr 27, 2010
966
Beneteau 352 Hull #276 Ontario
In my previous post there was a link to a 3ym30 (Brand New) for $6500.
 
May 7, 2011
45
Hunter 34 Long Beach, MS
In my previous post there was a link to a 3ym30 (Brand New) for $6500.
I saw that one. I'll give them a shout, wondering if I could save some on shipping getting one local.

Would the YM series be $2k better than the GM? Guess I need to research some dimension comparisons as well.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,810
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
New

A new YM for 2K more if this is real possible I would go for it but at that price for new than grab it if not already gone,if not go for the rebuilt and than you have extra parts and would not try doing anything with the one you alrady have.
Nick
 
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