311 install diesel or other heater

[stevemitchell]

Hi folks - first post after lurking for a while.....

I have owned Grace, my 2000 311 Beneteau, for almost a year, and have a question about other owners who have a non AC heater solution. She has an AC-only Cruise Air air conditioner which also can heat, but it's far less efficient, and of course only works when connected to AC power. I have no other heating capabilities.

I would like to have heat when not connected to shore power, and even when connected, something a bit more efficient than the heat pump based AC unit.

Most people have suggested installing a diesel-based heater, but I'm open to other ideas or suggestions. In particular, I'd like to know:

Any other 311 or similar layout owners who have a diesel heater, and any specs/details.
Suggestions for particular brands/models.
Layout of heating pipes - thinking one in the stern cabin, and one pointing into the main cabin area.
Alternate heater options than a diesel model.

Thanks!

 

[kloudie1]

Webasto, Wallas, Espar, and some others, good products.. The biggest problem is the exhaust vent for the combustion.. . If you try to use a ventless heater (I use a Mr. Heater, Buddy, here in the South on those few days when heat is needed) the cabin gets really humid and you have to deal with a lot of condensation.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/diesel-12-V...106611?hash=item35f88ab533:g:J~IAAOSwk5FUxCE3

 

[Maine Sail]

Webasto, Wallas, Espar, and some others, good products.. The biggest problem is the exhaust vent for the combustion.. . If you try to use a ventless heater (I use a Mr. Heater, Buddy, here in the South on those few days when heat is needed) the cabin gets really humid and you have to deal with a lot of condensation.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/diesel-12-V...106611?hash=item35f88ab533:g:J~IAAOSwk5FUxCE3

I would urge anyone to be very careful buying a heater off eBay. Both Espar and Webasto have been knocked off by both Russian and Chinese companies and the quality and parts are nowhere near the quality of a genuine Espar or Websato. The one in the link is a Webasto knock off not the real McCoy...

Also do not succumb to buying an Espar or Webasto truck kit. It will cost you more in parts to make it marine ready and it will still have the truck program in its computer Stick with genuine branded Espar or Webasto or Wallas if going diesel....

 

[Benny17441]

Our winters here in Florida are quite mild so we only need heat a few days out of the year. We did not feel our needs required a deck opening or fuel supply hoses so we settled on a vent free portable propane heater, Mr. Heater Big Buddy, which operates with 1 lb propane canisters. It has a safety tip-over switch and an oxygen depletion switch. It has a fan and is capable of convection heating and does not require the venting of combustion gases thus eliminating the need for a deck opening. We still do not trust to leave it running while we are asleep but have not experienced any problems while running it while we are awake. It is capable of putting out 18,000 BTUs of heat and works very well. There are also some wall mounted units which could work as a more permanent installation. Check vent free propane heaters.

 

[stevemitchell]

Thanks for the notes on the propane heaters. I had a similar system in my previous boat, and had issues with condensation and was never comfortable running it at night.

I'm fine with venting a diesel heater - most of them that I've seen installed require that nowadays. I'm not 100% sure on what is required for the fuel connection, as I am not interested in installing a dedicated tank - I'd prefer to use my existing one.

For sure I would be buying new from a dealer, and not online through Ebay or other means, as a friend had a problem with spare parts that route as well, and got non-official pieces and had issues.

 

[FastOlson]

If you do not absolutely have to have heat while at anchor, you might want to consider what we did a decade ago for our 34 footer. We have kinda-sorta similar displacement (and limited room for adding systems) as your boat... I put in a Heatercraft unit that is part of our engine's coolant system, in series with the hot water tank hose circuit. At any rpm above idle it puts out ridiculous amounts of heat in our cabin. We have a 23 hp three cylinder diesel engine. The amount of "waste heat" in even a small diesel will astound you. (!)
If you want the advantages of a forced air system, you have to pay the 'price' in complexity. They are neat to have but do need a lot of room when you put in the ducting, exhaust, and etc. And some more etc.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

 

[Les]

Since you live in Seattle go to Sure Marine in Ballard. They have all types of heating systems and can give you the pros and cons of each system. I presently use a Webasto 3000 and it serves me fine on my 27' Hunter.

 

[stevemitchell]

If you do not absolutely have to have heat while at anchor, you might want to consider what we did a decade ago for our 34 footer....

Thanks for the note! I have never heard of such a device, but it sounds pretty cool. I do unfortunately need heating while at anchor, so I don't think this particular one will work for me.

 

[stevemitchell]

Since you live in Seattle go to Sure Marine in Ballard. They have all types of heating systems and can give you the pros and cons of each system. I presently use a Webasto 3000 and it serves me fine on my 27' Hunter.

Thanks for the recommendation. I was curious about any local vendors that might have a comparison, and also do the full install, which I am curious about cost-wise. I'm completely capable of installing it myself, albeit after a lot of research so that I don't end up with any issues, but I'd like to know what it would cost for a professional to do it.

 

[Benny17441]

I'm sure you will be able to install a T-connection to extend a fuel delivery hose to the appliance. Routing of the hose may influence location of the appliance. The diesel heater is a good safe choice.

 

[centerline]

wallas is a good option, and the american dealer is located in seattle.... and very helpful and knowlegable people to deal with, as should be expected.
I installed one and we are happy with it....

the 30DT took some forethought and planning, but once I ran everything thru in my mind where I wanted things to go, and measured to find out where things would actually fit, the basic install went quick. total of about 5hours after the tools were put away and clean up....
then there was the ducting to run..... this took longer.

I mounted the heater high at the foot of the quarter berth, so it was out of the way of EVERYTHING.... and also because this was the most logical place from which the run the duct lines forward without obstructions that couldnt be easily worked with.... which is not truly the case, but there were no foreseen obstructions...

so in the end, I have a duct below the bottom drawer of the nav station, and one running all the way to the forward end of the Vberth...

this allows ventilation where its needed and heat throughout.... the only thing that I have considered since using it for quite some time now, is adding a "Y" vent in the tube that goes to the vberth so that i could divert more of the heat directly into the salon... on those cold days when it feels good to brighten things up by having the sun shining in the open companionway, it will get really hot up in the front of the boat... but its a dry heat....

Im sure by diverting, we could turn the heater down, still have all the "windows and doors" open, and stay warm without the hot spot.... a fan could help, but that is treating the symptom, not the problem, AND that extra power draw defeats the purpose of such an economical furnace.... but then one could easily argue that, so does leaving the freaking windows and doors open

I think having it done professionally will be quicker for a number of reasons, but if you have fairly deft skills in boat projects and are dedicated to them, you should figure 2 days to complete the install to your satisfaction. and the readjustments are made.

 

[stevemitchell]

I'm sure you will be able to install a T-connection to extend a fuel delivery hose to the appliance. Routing of the hose may influence location of the appliance. The diesel heater is a good safe choice.

Thanks for the note. I've seen the same suggestion/approach online elsewhere.

 

[stevemitchell]

wallas is a good option, and the american dealer is located in seattle.... and very helpful and knowlegable people to deal with, as should be expected.
I installed one and we are happy with it....

Thanks so much for the recommendation. I have already contacted the local dealer, and I really like their product!

 

[kloudie1]

Newest SAIL magazine has an article about an accident with a PLANAR forced air diesel heater.. Sailor almost lost her life.. Problem sounded like a bad (DIY) installation that let the exhaust hose melt and allowed some carbon monoxide into the cabin.

 

[stevemitchell]

I ended up installing a Wallas heater - you can read about it here https://www.sailbits.com/blog/2016/06/installing-wallas-heater/

Worked out very well, and I added a carbon monoxide detector as well (which should have been on the boat regardless of the heater) to prevent any horrible near accidents like the one covered in SAIL.

 

[centerline]

I ended up installing a Wallas heater - you can read about it here https://www.sailbits.com/blog/2016/06/installing-wallas-heater/

Worked out very well, and I added a carbon monoxide detector as well (which should have been on the boat regardless of the heater) to prevent any horrible near accidents like the one covered in SAIL.

thanks for the update to the thread... you will be happy with the wallas. its a highly efficient heater, relativly quiet and a very low power draw...

and an excellent write up on the install experience...

 

[stevemitchell]

thanks for the update to the thread... you will be happy with the wallas. its a highly efficient heater, relativly quiet and a very low power draw...

and an excellent write up on the install experience...

Thanks! I have been pretty impressed with how quiet the thing is! My previous boat had a Webasto system on it, and you *knew* when it was running, always. Sometimes my entire dock knew when it was first starting up

 

[Kings Gambit]

I have an factory-installed Espar on the Bavaria. There is heat ducting to both cabins, salon, and aft head. Also, of course, factory installation of the exhaust pipe at the starboard stern. Runs directly off the diesel fuel tank via its own pump, and is thermostat controlled from the salon. It's a very nice feature of the boat. The heating unit itself is not large and is tucked away aft in the starboard cockpit locker. There is some power demand if you're going to run it at length while at anchor--b/c you're running a fuel pump and a fan. Not a lot--but that AND the reefer running together add up. Sometimes I turn the reefer off if I'm going to run the Espar all that night, which I sometimes do.

 

[MitchM]

we had a stainless steel propane-fueled bulkhead heater on our last boat. it worked very well, looked very nice and was easy to install. we considered the Espar diesel for our current boat, but the exit hose plumbing and inlet grilles were far too complicated. our manufacturer told us it would be extremely difficult to install the Espar without wrecking most of the teak cabinetry. so check with your manufacturer before buying the diesel heaters s with specific exhaust length dimensions, some just won't fit even though you think they might.