26R project---Mission Complete!...well...almost

[Paul Brinkley]

"the cam cleat at top of the mast is for the main sail. couldn't make that one internal because of the wat that it works."

Right On, I'm confused. How does that work? -Paul

 

[MrBill_FLL]

(my interpretation)

The way it worked on my hobie 16 (rotating mast), was the halyard was a wire to rope and had a bead at the end of the wire, before the line started. this bead would fit in a forked catch on the bow side of the mast. that held the main up. ie, the halyard after the bead was loose (no load).

his halyard is the same, all the load is held by that cam cleat. but he can reef the main since he doesn't have a bead, he has a cam cleat.

you could probably use the cleat at the bottom of the mast to do the same thing if you didn't want to run lines back to the cockpit.



the stays setup is more complex, with a hound at the front of the mast for each set of shrouds.

that is my understanding anyway.

Righton, pls correct me if I misunderstood.

 

[RDS2012]

Where did you get your swim ladder? I really like that. Did a search on Defender and WM and didn't see anything like it.

Thanks, Ron

 

[Right On!]

You are correct MrBill...the cam cleat is what holds the main up in the luff track on the trailing side of the mast...the cam cleat is on the leading edge of the mast

the reason I put the cam cleat all the way at the top of the mast, was for sail shape control. I have an 8:1 cunning ham and when i crank it on, the pulling force is applied ONLY to the trailing side of the mast through the luff of the main sail...because the halyard stops at the top. If there was a return block up there instead of the cam cleat, alot of that same effort would be lost through the return halyard stretching. BTW my main has "luff tape" built in to the luff to endure the excesive loads created by the cunning ham system similar to a beach cat main.

Hey RDS2012..I found that ladder on ebay...they only sell this ladder through ebay...it's not in any catologs that ive found. try there..I think the companys name is "boater bits" or somthing like that.

 

[walt]

Great project, nice job!!

One of the things that interest me with the rotating mast is being able to sail "fast" on just the main. Part of the reason for doing this is easy wind range - it’s a lot simpler to drop the jib (either furler or hank on) than to reef the main. I’ve sailed my 26S on just the main and it sails fine but it’s definitely slower than sailing with a reefed main and the jib. Any experience sailing the rotating mast in higher winds on just the main?

You should bring that to Havasu next Feb to see how the mast works - at least a few other go fast 26D showed up last year. The Mac class racing is at some risk since the sponsor from two years ago isn’t around and there was no sponsor last year but this was only one race out of a week of sailing - plenty of other opportunity to compare speeds.

I’m actually thinking about the rotating mast for this experiment C15 I’ve been sailing this spring. Yesterday in some goods winds, I was sailing on the main only on a reach and doing 6.7 knots which is not bad but a Laser sailed by a guy who had a few years on me passed me (which I thought was great - those little boats really haul axx in that kind of wind and this guy looked like he had spent some time in one of those). But later in less wind when I had the jib up, I got that little boat up to 7.5 knots. I had plenty of wind when I sailed with just the main but you can see my speed was considerably slower.

 

[Right On!]

I am seriously considering this trip to Havasu. I hear it mentioned alot. Sounds like fun!!whats the deal with this place and all the Mac Maniacs?!!

 

[walt]

People like that event for different reasons but one for me is that its not so important what type of boat you brought. I also think its an extremely cool place (biased maybe - I grew up just over 100 miles from there)

If you like pictures, there are about a billion here http://www.flickr.com/photos/sailhavasu/collections/

These are some Ive taken
http://analogengineering.com/havasu/havasu.html
http://analogengineering.com/havasu/sail.html
http://analogengineering.com/havasu/kayak.html

Just before the event in Feb, a bunch of people spent some time in a cove about six miles south of the town. These are some pictures taken at that time
http://analogengineering.com/havasu/sonoran.html

 

[walt]

I’m wondering where exactly the pivot point is at the bottom of the mast?

I.e., is the rotating pivot closer to the leading edge of the mast or closer to the trailing edge - or in the middle or..

Anyone have a picture? I have a Hobie 14 that Ill also check but was wondeiring where Macrgegor had put it.

edit - did a search and found another thread http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=138272&highlight=rotating+mast

Roril, it looks like you have your rotation here
http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48884&d=1330138852

Would you change this at all - or is this a good spot

 

[walt]

Well... you guys have convinced me to further modify this single hand C15 (it already has 200 pounds of battery and concrete just under the mast...). First picture is from sailing two days ago.

Here are some pictures of the rotating mast base. I used some bronze washers. I still have to figure out something for the rotating spreader and Ill also check out the Hobie 14 hopefully today (it may not have spreaders..).

 

[r.oril]

I’m wondering where exactly the pivot point is at the bottom of the mast?

I.e., is the rotating pivot closer to the leading edge of the mast or closer to the trailing edge - or in the middle or..

Anyone have a picture? I have a Hobie 14 that Ill also check but was wondeiring where Macrgegor had put it.

edit - did a search and found another thread http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=138272&highlight=rotating+mast

Roril, it looks like you have your rotation here
http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48884&d=1330138852

Would you change this at all - or is this a good spot

Walt, It is towards the front. You have to miss the bolt that holds the original base plate to the mast. That is where Mike Inmon said to put it. It rotates with ease.

 

[walt]

Thanks for that info - direct from the source. With my smaller mast and the large bolt I used, it ended up somewhat in the middle. If I were doing this on my Mac, I would definately buy the parts from Macgregor.

 

[Doc_holiday]

Thanks for that info - direct from the source. With my smaller mast and the large bolt I used, it ended up somewhat in the middle. If I were doing this on my Mac, I would definately buy the parts from Macgregor.

Now that's a dedicated poster, cutting his mast off to get a good picture. Doh!

 

[walt]

Right on, since you have a lot of experience with Hobie cats and rotating masts, I was wondering what your thoughts are on where the mast base pivot point should be.

I was looking for some pictures of DN ice boats and found several. One picture shows the pivot up towards the front but the other picture looks like the pivot is back - even towards the trailing edge??

(I see back on post 25 that you also have the pivot towards the leading edge of the mast)

Edit - I also found a picture of a Hobie Tiger - looks like the pivot is also way to the front..

 

[vizwhiz]

r.oril, who posted in this thread, has a standard Mac mast with rotating components, if I understand it right... Point is, you don't have to have the Hobie mast to do it (and it's very possibly going to be an upgrade to my S boat in the near future!)...just so you don't think a rotating mast is out of reach if all you have is a stock Mac rig.

Mr. Bill, the Ruddercraft rudder is also a NACA 0012 foil shape, which is why everyone likes it so much over the stock rudder. I'm toying with building one of my own just to see how well it works out. (As though I need another project...)

"Right On!", the boat looks beautiful. I have been talking to the admiral about doing an all-white paint scheme on mine, but thought it might be too difficult to accomplish with bottom paint/anti-fouling over an old paint job and hull repairs...but now that I see your pics, I'm thinking about it again! I'll show your pics to the admiral and see what she thinks!
I really like the stern rails too...boat envy! Do you have pics of the process, close-ups of where they're mounted, etc?
And changing to a 7/8 rig - that's probably out of reach for me right now, as it would require new sails and rigging. Did you move the shrouds up to match the new forestay attachment point? (guess I could look at the pics, eh?)

EDIT: apparently my post took a while to reach the board - I sent it early in the list, but it made it all the way to page 3...sorry if my comments seem redundant.

 

[finding41]

Hey Right On and R Oril:
How much did the top of your mast go back when you put the MacGregor rotating mast foot on the bottom of the mast? I guess it is called rake. So is your mast raked more now that it rotates. I ask this because the rotating part looks as if it is on an angle. I'm not sure if the cabin top of the M is on a angle too. Or why the rotation thing has an angle to it.
It looks like it is raised to get over the foot attachment to the hull part... but why lean back?
I'm going to make my mast rotate as well but, I was going to have it on the angle that it is now. (I'm guessing close to if not 90*)
I don't see any disadvantage or advantage to my idea. Am I missing some thing simple here?

Edit: Here are two photos I found. 1st. R Oril's rotating mast thing before installation. Note the right side is higher than the left.
2nd. Capt Kermie's deck top of his 26M. See the deck slope forward?

 

[vizwhiz]

How does the rotating mast attach to the vertical pivot bolt? Is there a bottom "bracket" that has to attach to the bottom of the mast that I missed? I'm thinking that there has to be something kinda flat across the bottom of the mast, yes?

 

[Right On!]

Yes there is something flat! I used the stock hardware that comes on the Mac M's which includes the rotating "foot" that is directly attatched to the bottom of the mast.
Also, I mounted the bottom brackets differently to compensate for the coach house angle under the mast base that our boats have less of than the Mac M's. It just about works perfectly.
I will take some pics of the hardware on my boats (mastbase) tomorrow, since my boat is rigged in the driveway right now for the famous pop-top mod im doing right now.

I went the more expensive route with my rotating mast and hardware...R.Oril has done it I think with out spending as much for sure...and it looks as though it works very well for him..
Hey R.Oril...just curious...what are you measuring speed with, I have nothing at all on my boat. any suggestions?

 

[r.oril]

Hey Right On and R Oril:
How much did the top of your mast go back when you put the MacGregor rotating mast foot on the bottom of the mast? I guess it is called rake. So is your mast raked more now that it rotates. I ask this because the rotating part looks as if it is on an angle. I'm not sure if the cabin top of the M is on a angle too. Or why the rotation thing has an angle to it.
It looks like it is raised to get over the foot attachment to the hull part... but why lean back?
I'm going to make my mast rotate as well but, I was going to have it on the angle that it is now. (I'm guessing close to if not 90*)
I don't see any disadvantage or advantage to my idea. Am I missing some thing simple here?

Edit: Here are two photos I found. 1st. R Oril's rotating mast thing before installation. Note the right side is higher than the left.
2nd. Capt Kermie's deck top of his 26M. See the deck slope forward?

The deck slopes down. My mast is 90 degrees to the boat when level. I don,t have it raked at all. The bottom plate , when attached compensates and makes the base level .
The back stay is kept loose for ease of rotation per Mike Inmon.

I found that the new base was real close to the DB block. I centered the mast over the same location as the original.

I will have to look at the photos.

We are going to Monterey this week and I will be sure to take some video of the RM in action.

 

[r.oril]

Hey Right On and R Oril:
How much did the top of your mast go back when you put the MacGregor rotating mast foot on the bottom of the mast? I guess it is called rake. So is your mast raked more now that it rotates. I ask this because the rotating part looks as if it is on an angle. I'm not sure if the cabin top of the M is on a angle too. Or why the rotation thing has an angle to it.
It looks like it is raised to get over the foot attachment to the hull part... but why lean back?
I'm going to make my mast rotate as well but, I was going to have it on the angle that it is now. (I'm guessing close to if not 90*)
I don't see any disadvantage or advantage to my idea. Am I missing some thing simple here?

Edit: Here are two photos I found. 1st. R Oril's rotating mast thing before installation. Note the right side is higher than the left.
2nd. Capt Kermie's deck top of his 26M. See the deck slope forward?

This might help. The new base plate levels the base.

 

[vizwhiz]

This might help. The new base plate levels the base.

Okay, I've looked at these pics and the pics in your other thread about the rotating mast...and I still have questions about the slope.
Seems to me from looking at this and pics of my mast foot that:

(1) The original mast base is sloped forward slightly due to the deck being slightly sloped forward, but the mast still stands up straight (doesn't lean forward with the slope of the base).

(2) The original mast bracket (the part attached to the bottom of the mast with one bolt) sits flat on the mast base when you step the mast, but the bottom of the mast extrusion itself essentially touches that bracket all the way around (the mast doesn't seem to rest on the bolt on my mast, but on the bracket - there's an outline where the bottom of the extrusion sits).

(3) This means that the bottom of the mast extrusion has to be cut on an angle that matches the slope of the boat deck/mast base...it can't be cut straight across. I'm really curious now, because I haven't looked at this very closely until this discussion...the bottom of the mast extrusion has always been covered up by that bracket, so I never looked at it!

(4) So if the new RM bracket that goes in the mast base on the deck (the part with the vertical pivot bolt sticking up out of it) makes the old mast bracket sit flat (the part you drilled the new hole in), then it seems to me that the mast would now lean way back due to it not being a straight cut on the bottom...but you say it is sitting straight up/down...

Now I'm wondering how I ever adjusted the mast rake...in the original mast setup, the mast extrusion itself (and thus the weight and downthrust) must rest on the two bolts (the one thru the mast and the one thru the bracket) and not the mast bracket itself in order to change angles, or else one edge of the mast extrusion would not rest on the bracket as soon as you changed the angle...everything's not touching everything else here... BAH! Someone help please! (LOL!)

I think this is what finding41 was getting at too...and now that I've looked at all the pieces, I'm thinking the same things...don't see how you did it without it changing the angle of the mast. (not questioning that it worked for you, just trying to understand how it can work with the angles the way they are)