260 Sea toilet

[GBGraham]

Apologies, I'm back again! I'm seriously thinking of installing a sea toilet rather than chemical one that is with the boat. I have look through the Quick Search under 260 with no luck.
Has anyone done this, if so can they please pass on their experiences, to fit as the standard 260 handbook shows or do something in a different way, which/who's product(s) used. Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

(Note to anyone else about to chime in: he's in Greece!)
A simple manual toilet is a reasonable solution for a 26' boat ONLY if you don't also have to install a holding tank too...required in some areas of the Med and Agean, but not all...so it depends on your "cruising grounds." If you do, you'll lose at least 25% of your storage space to the tank and related plumbing and move from a no-maintenance toilet to a high maintenance sanitation system.

But you don't have to settle for a chemical toilet (portapotty) that you have to carry off the boat to empty it. On any boat much smaller than about 30', a self-contained system—an "MSD" portapotty-- makes a lot of sense. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it.

A 5-6 gallon model holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $200--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space. In fact, you can even add a y-valve and pump to the pumpout line to let you dump the tank where legal.

Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD Sanipottie

 

[GBGraham]

Thank you for the expanded reply. If I did go down the line of a sea toilet I would fit a holding tank as a matter of course. The Greek Aegean or Ionian for that matter does not require holding tanks, only most of the Turkish Aegean. Greece does not have facilities anywhere to pump out.
I do think it's irresponsible not to have a holding tank whether it's law or not.
The boat came with a Thetford 335, We have never had any dealings with chemical toilets and probably, rightly or wrongly a little afraid of them.
May be the thing to do is try it this season and see how it pans out, it is only going to be occasional use anyway.

 

[David in Sandusky]

I support Peggy’s MSD recommendation. We have used it on our h27 for the past 18 sommers, over 400 nights on the boat, with great results. I’m not sure what you mean by a “chemical” toilet. The only additive we put in our MSD is an oxygen source (the brand is Odorlos here.)

But if there are no restriction on pumping waste overboard, why do you need a holding tank?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

David a "chemical" toilet is Eurospeak for a portapotty. Usual "treatment" is in them the highly toxic nasty Thetford chemical tank products.

The Thetford 335 is a portable 10L unit. And portable portapotties/chemical toilets can be a nightmare, but the MSD versions really do offer all the advantages of a sea toilet and tank with none of the "head" aches they create....and the right tank product will keep them odor free.
I hope other who have them will chime in with their experiences with 'em.

 

[GBGraham]

[QUOTE="David in Sandusky,
But if there are no restriction on pumping waste overboard, why do you need a holding tank?[/QUOTE]
Basically in the bays and anchorages, I definitely would not want to swim in my own sh one t and even more so in anybody else's.
FYI, grey water is more harmful to the environment than black water. In Turkey grey water also has to be kept in a holding tank.

 

[GBGraham]

Thanks for the info Peggie, I will take a look at the MSD

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

FYI, grey water is more harmful to the environment than black water. In Turkey grey water also has to be kept in a holding tank.

How much time do you plan to spend in Turkish waters? It's not legal in US waters to combine gray and black water in the same tank...there shouldn't even be any common plumbing. Not sure what's legal in Europe. However, if the need to store gray water is minimal, we can work out a way to divert it into the MSD tank when necessary. If you're determined to hold it all the time, we need to discuss how to re-route your sink drain(s) into a small tank without creating a plumbing nightmare.

 

[GBGraham]

I have absolutely no plans of sailing in Turkish waters. My last yacht had 2 heads with separate holding tanks (70 litres each) and all grey water went into a circa 120 litre holding tank that drained through the cockpit scupper drains. There was no diverter valves on any of the tanks The smell and gas that came from scuppers made the black water smell like roses.

 

[Kermit]

I have an installed holding tank now. But...If I were adding a toilet from scratch I would follow Peggie’s suggestion. Mostly because she’s got it going on! And knows her s-... ah stuff.

 

[GBGraham]

David a "chemical" toilet is Eurospeak for a portapotty. Usual "treatment" is in them the highly toxic nasty Thetford chemical tank products.

The Thetford 335 is a portable 10L unit. And portable portapotties/chemical toilets can be a nightmare, but the MSD versions really do offer all the advantages of a sea toilet and tank with none of the "head" aches they create....and the right tank product will keep them odor free.
I hope other who have them will chime in with their experiences with 'em.

Sorry but I gave you some duff information on my PortaPotti. On checking the actual item rather than paperwork it is a 365 which looks the same capacities as the 550. Do you know of any other difference and any useful tips on the workings other than the instructions?
BTW, The Theford 550 and the Dometic 975 does not seem to be an available in item in Europe, and the Dometic through Amazon with shipping would cost circa $350 plus any import taxes that may accrue.

 

[Jackdaw]

Thank you for the expanded reply. If I did go down the line of a sea toilet I would fit a holding tank as a matter of course. The Greek Aegean or Ionian for that matter does not require holding tanks, only most of the Turkish Aegean. Greece does not have facilities anywhere to pump out.
I do think it's irresponsible not to have a holding tank whether it's law or not.
The boat came with a Thetford 335, We have never had any dealings with chemical toilets and probably, rightly or wrongly a little afraid of them.
May be the thing to do is try it this season and see how it pans out, it is only going to be occasional use anyway.

I assume you want a holding tank so you can dump out in open water between island. If so good idea. I can tell you I felt very strange doing serious WC business while on the the hook at Sand Bar Bay on Kythnos. Perfectly clear blue water and... ick.

 

[GBGraham]

I assume you want a holding tank so you can dump out in open water between island. If so good idea. I can tell you I felt very strange doing serious WC business while on the the hook at Sand Bar Bay on Kythnos. Perfectly clear blue water and... ick.

Absolutely, I can understand your feelings, what a super bay North or South side of the bar, can you believe anyone would want to defecate anywhere like that, a holding tank is the only answer .
It looks like I may be able to cope with the Porta Poti, we have gone from living for 9 years on a 16m to the occasional night out on a 260

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

On checking the actual item rather than paperwork it is a 365 which looks the same capacities as the 550. Do you know of any other difference and any useful tips on the workings other than the instructions?

It is the same size as the 550P. However it doesn't seem to be available as the "MSD" version, only as a portable. But looking at the parts list, http://www.thetford.com/part/porta-potti-365/ it doesn't appear that it would be too difficult to turn it into one that can be pumped out. It would only require replacing the pour spout (part #5) with a thread-barb hose fitting and installing a vent fitting--which, thanks to a little gadget called the Uniseal UNISEAL , would be easy to do. Others here have "converted" potable portpotty tanks to pumpable...hopefully one of them will join the conversation. If not, and if you have either Skype or Whatsapp, I can walk your through it on the phone.

 

[GBGraham]

Thank you again for your time and trouble in dealing with my toiletries!! . I have seen the breakdown of both models and now understand the difference.
For my needs I would need to incorporate some sort of discharge pump with having no pump out facilities in Greece.

 

[Jackdaw]

Thank you again for your time and trouble in dealing with my toiletries!! . I have seen the breakdown of both models and now understand the difference.
For my needs I would need to incorporate some sort of discharge pump with having no pump out facilities in Greece.

Based on my times there, I think a system with a holding tank that could be discharged in open waters (away from people and shore-based marine life) would make the most sense. Its a pretty commom model in many boats there.

Often a 5 gallon (40l) rectangular tank is mounted on the hull behind the toilet. It fills from the top, and a large valve and seacock on the bottom let it empty to the sea. Small and simple.

This images shows a bypass, which is nice not absolutely necessary.

 

[GBGraham]

Based on my times there, I think a system with a holding tank that could be discharged in open waters (away from people and shore-based marine life) would make the most sense. Its a pretty commom model in many boats there.

You will find most if not all charter boats out here have a holding tank system. The ones that don't are the private yachts that won't pay for the privilege, mostly the French and Italians. In my observations they don't even use the head, they just discharge off the sugar scoop.

 

[Jackdaw]

You will find most if not all charter boats out here have a holding tank system. The ones that don't are the private yachts that won't pay for the privilege,

Most of them have the system I describe in that image above, correct?

 

[GBGraham]

For me there would have to be an anti syphon in the inlet side to stop bowl fill. Admittedly with your drawing and gravity I would not need a discharge pump.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

For my needs I would need to incorporate some sort of discharge pump with having no pump out facilities in Greece.

Easy to do from a self-contained system: just put a y-valve and pump (pro'bly should be a manual diaphragm pump on 26' sailboat) in the pumpout line...line coming off one side of the y-valve to a deck pumpout fitting, line off the other side to the pump and then to a thru-hull (which you may have to install. Can be above waterline, but a lot nicer if below).