04-14 H41 owners

Discussion in 'Big Boats' started by dakno, Feb 24, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. dakno

    dakno

    Joined Jun 22, 2009
    194 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US new orleans
    This is something I have brought up before. I have a 08 H41DS. This 300 hr lightly used 2 owner never damaged boat has HUGE port helm when motoring, it would be totally unmanageable without autopilot. If I am motoring at 2.5k rpm and release autopilot the wheel would spin as fast as possible to port till it hits the stop. My best guess is 4-6 lbs torque on the wheel to port. Helm is balanced under sail, my issue is only under power. When motoring there is no vibration, wobble detectable. The rudder is not bent. I thought this was a design defect but I have 2 neighbors with this same hull and they don't know what I am talking about, i.e. they don't have this issue. My only thoughts at the moment is a misalignment of engine/propeller shaft. What I am seeking here is for any owners of 04-14 H41 Glenn Henderson hull to tell me what their helm is like at 2400 rpm? I am in a boatyard now getting a new bottom so now is the time to address this. Ideas, thoughts are very welcome.
    Thanks
     


  2. DayDreamer41

    DayDreamer41

    Joined Oct 29, 2016
    1,321 posts, 657 likes
    Hunter 41 DS
    Un Port Huron
    Our Sapphire 2007 vintage, does not have this issue, while I do not typically run the RPM's past 2000 (normally right around 1800) I have not had an issue all the way through max throttle - 3400 RPM. I do on occasion let go of the helm to prepare / assist in getting sails or dock lines ready and haven't noticed any tendencies for the helm wanting to go to one side or the other. We have a (3) bladed Flex-o-fold (18" estimated) prop.
    By the sounds of it yours always turns to port (clockwise rotation) which would indicated more turbulence being generated on the starboard side of the rudder.
    First thing I would look at is the shape of the foil side to side, is the trailing edge of the rudder on the center line? Is the curvature of the foil the same on both sides of the rudder? When you position the helm rotation indicator in the center is the rudder actually centered?
     


  3. Rick486

    Rick486

    Joined Oct 1, 2007
    1,241 posts, 324 likes
    Hunter 44DS
    US Pt. Judith
    Recommend you talk with Marlow Hunter. There are some very knowledgeable guys down there who are happy to share knowledge with you. As I said earlier in a similar thread, I do have loading on the rudder when powering. I believe it is a combination of the off center alignment by design of the shaft so it can be removed without removing the rudder, and the substantial prop wash from the 18 inch Max Prop. When powering without the autopilot engaged, I always have sufficient tightening of the wheel brake to keep her on steady heading.
     


  4. Nodak7

    Nodak7

    Joined Sep 28, 2008
    1,022 posts, 35 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US Punta Gorda, FL
    We have a 06 41DS and have not experienced this problem ever. We have a Vari Prop so whatever your problem is it is not normal. It would have to be a huge shaft misalignment to to what you are saying! You might check the rudder alignment when it is in auto helm. But since it does not do it when sailing I doubt that. There is no offset shaft alignment for removal so not an issue. Interesting issue. Pleas keep us posted on whatever you find out.
     


  5. JamesG161

    JamesG161

    Joined Feb 14, 2014
    3,603 posts, 1,320 likes
    Hunter 430
    US Waveland, MS
    My guess is your folding prop is not fully extended on one blade. Work the blades to make sure they extend completely.
    Jim...
     


  6. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,985 posts, 3,902 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Dakno... For what it is worth, you can get under the boat and see if the shaft and prop are in alignment with the rudder. What you are describing would have to get progressively worse as you increase RPM. Running your engine at 2500 RPM would be more pressure ont he rudder than running it at 200 RPM.

    What prop do you have? I had a standard Michigan 3 blade
    Prop.JPG
    that when under power caused the boat to turn due to the prop wash and turbulence from the prop striking the rudder. It was in alignment but the blades were the problem.
    I changed to a Campbell Sailor prop.
    IMG_3443.JPG
    Improved design with 60 plus % of the turbulence was converted to forward thrust, causing a significant decrease in the tendency for the boat to turn when letting go of the wheel.

    If you have a folding prop then something is causing it to give an unbalanced flow against the rudder. A partial deployed blade is a good possibility as @JamesG161 suggests. Again you have it on the hard and can grab the prop and inspect the function.
     


  7. Terry Cox

    Terry Cox

    Joined Dec 25, 2000
    3,729 posts, 530 likes
    Hunter Passage 42
    US Shelter Bay, WA
    Ditto here except ours turns to starboard. No worries. Seldom motor above 1,800 RPM. The higher the RPM the stronger the helm. Same happens when the wind pipes up. Very strong weather helm above 22-25 MPH winds, which I expect with our boat. Let go of the helm and she rounds up.
     


  8. dakno

    dakno

    Joined Jun 22, 2009
    194 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US new orleans
    Thanks for the replies. I have a MaxProp Classic now but had the oe fixed prop for the first year, both props having the same issue. Mechanic is inspecting running gear today and I will let you know what the report is. I have port helm under power so boat would rotate in a tight counter clockwise circle left to itself.
     


  9. SEMPERAVANTI41

    SEMPERAVANTI41

    Joined Jun 15, 2012
    446 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 50 AC
    US Greenport, NY
    Have original 3 bladed prop on 07 H41. Have never experienced anything other than a balanced helm under forward power up to 3000 rpm. Reverse is another story.
     


  10. gfrazzle

    gfrazzle

    Joined Aug 26, 2007
    221 posts, 3 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US Ventura, California
    My 07 has the original 18" fixed 3 blade prop and has the same issue but not nearly as severe. I have always assumed it was because of the prop.
     


  11. ice breaker

    ice breaker

    Joined Sep 11, 2011
    246 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter 41
    US lake superior
    My 2004 with standard 3 blade is balanced.......however no hands on the wheel, it will produce a pretty fast 360 turn. At 7 knots it gets your attention. My AP has no problem managing the boat. Do you may be have a rudder issue? not properly balanced? just a thought.
     


  12. Valerio

    Valerio

    Joined Feb 10, 2017
    152 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 41
    Mx Progreso
    Terry i have the same sailboat, the weather helm is natural on all sailboat that have been inclined too much, this 41 and even more the skoal draft model the more you incline the boat the more you loose the center of pressure between the sail and the keel. what amazes me is the BIG difference a prop can do. I have the standard (i think) 18 r 12 3 blade prop that under 2400 rpm is not pushing me faster than 5.6 knots under flat water and clean bottom, and under sail i have anchived a max speed of 8.4 knots once and generrally spaeking i am never above 7 knots.
     


  13. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,985 posts, 3,902 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    @Valerio I think it is worth your time and effort to examine your prop.
    My theoretical hull speed is a we bit over 7 knots. Could not get above 6.2 without drowning the stern. Changed prop and I get 7 knots without the stern going down more than a couple of inches. And still running at 85% wide open throttle.

    You might find significant improvement.
     


  14. dakno

    dakno

    Joined Jun 22, 2009
    194 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US new orleans
    Thanks Skippers, I may have a idea. Contractor today reported engine / shaft alignment off by .001, not much. Everything else is good. I believe Valerio is on to something with his inclined hull theory. After buying my boat I added davits, dink, motor to the stern and now transom sits 2" lower than previously. There is no other explanation for my helm issues?
     


  15. JamesG161

    JamesG161

    Joined Feb 14, 2014
    3,603 posts, 1,320 likes
    Hunter 430
    US Waveland, MS
    Did you work the blades of your folding prop to make sure they are folding IN and OUT?
    Jim...
     


  16. dakno

    dakno

    Joined Jun 22, 2009
    194 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US new orleans
    Jim, yes blades are worked back and forth, did so today as boat is still on the hard. Blades were also lubed yesterday. Rudder, alignment are fine. There is absolutely no damage history with this boat. The only thing I am left with at this time is that the stern sits lower, (bottom 1/2 rub rail is in the water). We just replaced the linear drive on the ray marine AP yesterday due to fluid being blown out ,(350 engine hrs). Hopefully I will get 10 years out of this AP unit. $2000 parts and labor. Also attach points were solid, no need for modification. Live long and prosper!
     


    JamesG161 likes this.
  17. JamesG161

    JamesG161

    Joined Feb 14, 2014
    3,603 posts, 1,320 likes
    Hunter 430
    US Waveland, MS
    Stow all of your Dixie Beer in the forward head as offset ballast!!!
    About 6 cases should do it.;)
    but don't get the Dixie Light Beer:cowbell:

    This is very puzzling to me. I would have bet your folding prop was not extending out on one of the blades.

    I can release the wheel, under power, and get Zero change in course. Mine is a 2 blade standard.

    I hope it was the folding prop. ;)
    Jim...
     


  18. dakno

    dakno

    Joined Jun 22, 2009
    194 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US new orleans
    Everything on the boat checked out fine so the only thing I am left with is that its a trait of the MaxProp Classic 3-blade 18" concerning my STARBOARD helm. I remembered wrong when I earlier stated that I was experiencing port helm...sorry. I have to maintain hard pressure to port to stop the boat from making hard starboard turn(clockwise). Live with it or buy another prop, or reinstall original .
     


  19. JamesG161

    JamesG161

    Joined Feb 14, 2014
    3,603 posts, 1,320 likes
    Hunter 430
    US Waveland, MS
    Try a new fixed two bladed propeller
    Removing the third blade reduces drag when under sail.
    The third blade produces more thrust.
    But...
    How often do you push your boat to the theoretical hull speed on engine power?
    Jim...

    PS: I don't run my engine at 2800 rpm [ pushing hull speed], unless emergency. I have a 2 bladed fixed prop.;) Balanced helm.:)

    PSS: Try both 3 and 2 fixed blades. A diver can change them.:) Cost for 2 blade about $500. What is it worth to stop your Starboard thrust imbalance?
     


    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    jssailem likes this.
  20. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,985 posts, 3,902 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Great advise @JamesG161. And relevant to the area you are sailing @dakno.

    Unless you regularly power about through narrow passages and strong currents the need for a better sailing experience seems a higher priority. If memory serves boating is a series of compromises.
     


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