My H41 has wings so at 45 degree is when the wing is at is max deep, but also the keel is so angled that is no making any side pressure on the water. So forget about the wings? and sail the flatter i could ?
how flat do you sail your hunter ?
- Thread starter Valerio
- Start date
45 degrees is a lot of heel. At that point the sails are not drawing efficiently, the hull form is causing weather helm and the rudder is probably stalling if not the keel. The wing may be at maximum depth, and maybe maximum lateral resistance, but it is likely stalled and slow. I would learn to sail it more flat.
What kind of wind are you sailing in? I can hardly believe you heeling 45 deg on any point of sail. If it’s true, and again I don’t believe it, you need to reef both sails, ease the sheets, or depower/drop the sails and run the auxiliary. Yes...sail flatter or risk losing control.
Perhaps you mean 45 degrees close hauled to the wind. This is normal and yes you can realize some heeling. If you ease the sheets on both head sail and main a bit you will flatten out and make your crew more comfortable. Reefing is always a good option.
Perhaps you mean 45 degrees close hauled to the wind. This is normal and yes you can realize some heeling. If you ease the sheets on both head sail and main a bit you will flatten out and make your crew more comfortable. Reefing is always a good option.
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When we sea trialed our 38 the dealer said that when the winds get around 12 to 15 knots it’s time to begin furling the main. Flatten the boat out and she will go faster. With a 13 foot beam carried far aft when she heels too much the dealer said it’s like dragging a barn door through the water. Bring her upright and she’ll go faster
The Hunters with the B&R rigging (backstay-less) and wide sterns sail faster when at a slight angle of heel.
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@Valerio please post that in Spanish. I can translate it.
No hay alas en un Hunter 41. [There are no wings on a H41]
It is almost impossible to sail your boat with its deck at 45 degrees angle.
[Es casi imposible navegar en tu bote con tu plataforma a un ángulo de 45 grados.]
Why?
You would have very little wind in your main sail and you keel would have very little effect.
Yes, your boat will sail faster when you have very little deck Angle or heel.
Unfortunately your desired course and the wind direction don't always allow flat sailing.
Jim...
No hay alas en un Hunter 41. [There are no wings on a H41]
It is almost impossible to sail your boat with its deck at 45 degrees angle.
[Es casi imposible navegar en tu bote con tu plataforma a un ángulo de 45 grados.]
Why?
You would have very little wind in your main sail and you keel would have very little effect.
Yes, your boat will sail faster when you have very little deck Angle or heel.
Unfortunately your desired course and the wind direction don't always allow flat sailing.
Jim...
OK James, at the bottom of the keel there is a flat part (on the shallow draft boat) were all the weight is. So if you incline that at 45 you will have the maximum draft. I am never say that i am sailing at 45 degrees, this boat after 25 does not feel balanced, i am asking how much you let her go dawn, the keel and draft were only an observation of like old american cup sailboat (the frist one was from australia) they have wings that increase the draft when heeled over.
My sincere apology @Valerio the word "wings" was a bit confusing to me.
The "shoal keel" , that looks like a torpedo, is what I have too.
When the incline angle [heel], with respect to the horizon, is 45 degrees, you have Minimum draft.
I agree with you. If my incline [heel] goes greater than 30°, my boat does not perform well.
Why?
My rudder loses a bit of control too, the main sail spills the wind, the bow tends to nose down, and my speed slows.
____
I have found my best heeled speed to be less closer to 25°.
I would think each boat has it own, characteristics.
Jim...
The "shoal keel" , that looks like a torpedo, is what I have too.
When the incline angle [heel], with respect to the horizon, is 45 degrees, you have Minimum draft.
I agree with you. If my incline [heel] goes greater than 30°, my boat does not perform well.
Why?
My rudder loses a bit of control too, the main sail spills the wind, the bow tends to nose down, and my speed slows.
____
I have found my best heeled speed to be less closer to 25°.
I would think each boat has it own, characteristics.
Jim...
20 degrees is the max heel you should ever sail for optimum performance. Not only do you slide-slip like crazy due to loss of lift, but the rudder acts more like a diving plane (and a brake) than an actual rudder.
The 'wings' on modern production cruisers are a simple method to get extra ballast to the bottom of a shoal keel. Much the same as it was on the old AC boats. The 12-meter rule severely limited keel draft on what were 65-75 foot boats. After 1983 all designers played with the notion in different ways until the rule was discarded.
The 'wings' on modern production cruisers are a simple method to get extra ballast to the bottom of a shoal keel. Much the same as it was on the old AC boats. The 12-meter rule severely limited keel draft on what were 65-75 foot boats. After 1983 all designers played with the notion in different ways until the rule was discarded.
Yes but to no advantage. At 1983 Cup, the Americans filed a protest against Aus2 on that very point. The international jury ruled in favor of OZ saying no advantage (from the additional draft) was gained.
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Sometimes Google translate leaves us scratching our foreheads. Agree. At 45 degrees of heel you are rounding up or about to wish you had put your companionway boards in! Close hauled... depends on the boat. Our CC is top heavy so she sails better with a reef at 15 than our old 336, which was just a wind loving beast. Reef.... Reef...
My H376 preforms best at 12-15 degrees. I reef the main early to keep her on her feet, usually anything over 15-16 kts I put a reef in.
Bob
Bob
How flat you say, well that depends, I like to measure the neutrality of the rudder, once the rudder starts to see more than 10* of weather helm I start to trim. This happens at 15-18 resulting in a relatively flat boat say <15* heel angle. Once the gusts get to 20 I am going to start reefing the main.
I am anticipating better performance with the new sails, but I won't find that out for a number weeks.
I am anticipating better performance with the new sails, but I won't find that out for a number weeks.
Um, No.
While the optimal heel angle for the BOAT (which factors in balance between the rig's drive and the righting moment) will vary between say 10 and 20 degrees, the optimal angle for ANY keel is 0 degrees.
Respectfully you're totally wrong. I don't know how to sugar-coat your 100% incorrect statement. Any fluid dynamics expert will tell you that optimal angle for a foil is perpendicular to the surface of the water. Induced drag (drag due to lift) increases as you reduce aspect ratio and area. Effective aspect ratio and area decrease with heel as the cosine of the angle of heel.
Flat is fast.
Fast isn't fast enough. Get it upright. I recall being able to bring the Mac to a stop by heeling it. Bit that you'd want to do this, as mentioned the foils become inefficient, and turning the rudder to maintain way is a lose-lose scenario. The boat will be fastest with a balanced helm.
Get it upright. I recall being able to bring the Mac to a stop by heeling it. Bit that you'd want to do this, as mentioned the foils become inefficient, and turning the rudder to maintain way is a lose-lose scenario. The boat will be fastest with a balanced helm.