New o'day 22 owner with a few questions

Sep 25, 2017
10
O'day 22 Chattanooga
Hey, I'm Stuart. I just picked up a '83 22 foot o'day from a good family friend. It was her late husbands boat and had been sitting in storage without the mast for a few years and in need of some TLC.

I've got the mast up but how do I know when the stays are tight enough? Should it just be a few turns past finger tight? I tried to just wing it after reading the original owners manual but when I started to tighten the backstay I noticed the top of the mast starting to bend much more than I expected.

I'm also having an issue with the cockpit drain backing up. Is there some sort of a scupper or check valve or should I be able to run a snake all the way through it to clean it out?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Stuart
 

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May 17, 2004
5,031
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Hey, I'm Stuart. I just picked up a '83 22 foot o'day from a good family friend. It was her late husbands boat and had been sitting in storage without the mast for a few years and in need of some TLC.

I've got the mast up but how do I know when the stays are tight enough? Should it just be a few turns past finger tight? I tried to just wing it after reading the original owners manual but when I started to tighten the backstay I noticed the top of the mast starting to bend much more than I expected.

I'm also having an issue with the cockpit drain backing up. Is there some sort of a scupper or check valve or should I be able to run a snake all the way through it to clean it out?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Stuart
Welcome! For the stay tension, if you can see the mast bending that’s probably too loose. There are gauges to tell the tension, or methods to do it with yard sticks instead of gauges. As a rule of thumb you should be able to sail close hauled in 10-12 knot winds with minimal or no slack in the leeward shrouds. Before you tighten them down though you might want to check the deck and bulkhead area where the shrouds attach to make sure there’s no water damage. Tightening the shrouds if there is any rot or delamination could make things worse.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Cockpit drain shouldn't back up. Not sure what the config is on a 22, but on my newer design 192, there is a wire reinforced rubber hose (think hose used for holding tank installations in the head) which connects a fitting in the cockpit to a plastic fitting in the transom. These are known to deteriorate over time, as happened to my friend's boat last year. He had his wife and guest sit on the foredeck to lift the transom out of the water while he frantically consulted with me, then pulled off the bits of old hose, and ran to the hardware store to get some of that fiber reinforced vinyl hose. On his, it looked like the rubber deteriorated either in combination with, or because of, rusting of the wire encapsulated in the rubber. It was a bitch for him to clear out the lazarette, lay in there, to get to the underside of the back of the cockpit, and pick at the fitting barbs with pliers until he got it off. Replacement was pretty easy, though. The hose makes a 90º turn, so one would need to be careful not to kink the hose at the bend so as to reduce flow. I think most of those vinyl tubings are squashed due to being rolled up, so I would be careful to spin it such that the bend tends to open the oblong flattening, leading to less restriction. I also suspect leaving the hose to sit in hot sun on a summer day would help, or a heat gun. This is an opportunity to source good ALL stainless steel hose clamps (many "SS clamps" don't have a SS worm gear) and to install 2 clamps on each fitting as per best practice for any through hull fitting. Here is more info on good hose clamps: https://marinehowto.com/proper-installation-of-double-hose-clamps/
 
Sep 25, 2017
10
O'day 22 Chattanooga
Thank you! I worked on the boat a little more last night and I believe my forestay was too tight which caused the upper section of my mast to bend when I tightened the backstay because the only bending was above the point where the forestay attaches to the mast.

I will try to find out if my cockpit drain hose is just kinked, that would be nice though replacing it does not sound like much fun.

Hopefully I'll have the boat sailing again soon!
 

Capri

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Jul 28, 2012
78
O'day 22 Nashville
I have the same boat and regularly need to snake it. There's a bend in the hose which leaves sometimes clog. I've done a lot to my boat so let me know if you have other questions.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Looks like the O'day 22 was available as a fractional rig first, then a masthead rig the following year. I'm assuming you have the fractional rig. On my fractional rig 192, it true that if you have the backstay on the tighter side, the mast tip above the hounds (where upper shrouds and forestay attach to mast) will appear to have a noticeable kink to the aft. My sailmaker said that this rig should have about 1/2" to 3/4" of mast pre-bend (curve to forward.) This is typically set by upper shroud and forestay tension, as the spreaders are swept, and thus induce pre-bend. I found on mine, when I had the rig waaaay tightened, that the lowers can pull the pre-bend out of the mast. That's not too good a thing, as pre-bend is useful to stiffen the mast, prevent mast inversions, prevent "pumping," and also the main should be cut expecting a bit of pre-bend, otherwise it would have too much draft if set on a straight mast. Contrary to what some people do, I set the mast straight laterally, using main halyard to check that it is even side to side measuring down to the chainplates. Then I use the lowers to make sure the mast is in column, not bowing to one side or the other. The backstay I set to moderate tightness - not that it seems floppy, but not that it puts a very noticeable aft kink in the mast tip. (Someday adding a purchase to the 18" strop under the mainsheet triangle would be great for increasing backstay tension to de-power. And maybe even figuring how the heck I would make a traveler.) Then I go sail in 8-10 knots, close hauled, and check that my tiller has 3-6º of weather helm. If not, I adjust forestay and lowers until I feel I have the rake set appropriately for that amount of weather helm. First time, I thought I had the boat balanced so well, it turns out I had lee helm with a bit more wind! So I had to back off forestay a couple turns, then take up the uppers. As for the lowers, keeping an eye to the amount of pre-bend (estimated by pulling the main halyard down along the mast approximately aft of the base as much as the exit point from the sheave at the mast head, and guess at the amount of pre-bend midway up or so. Then, I make sure sailing in about 10 knots, that the leeward lower seems looser, but not remarkably moving around.

I have read other tuning procedures, which all basically say to take the standing rigging to 10% of breaking strength. In my opinion, these older recreational boats (eg. not racing boats) don't tolerate that much rig tension well. Maybe when then were new, but surely not 30 years later. In fact, the owner's manual for the 192 says to tighten the rig hand tight, whatever the hell that means. Doesn't sound like 10% of breaking strength of wire in standing rigging to me. My old Loos gauge, though often considered not very accurate, bears out my tension opinions...
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
My old Loos gauge, though often considered not very accurate, bears out my tension opinions...
I always thought of the Loos gauges as being pretty accurate. It's a very simple concept!
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
Looks like the O'day 22 was available as a fractional rig first, then a masthead rig the following year....
Brian, it's sort-of the other way around..... The 22 was masthead-rigged from 1972-79, and the Fractional rig was the standard for the 1980-83 models. I too figured that he was speaking of the newer, fractional rig, then noticed he mentioned that she is a 1983 model, thus confirming the fractional rig. The 222 which was built from 1984-89 was always fractional rig.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Brian, it's sort-of the other way around..... The 22 was masthead-rigged from 1972-79, and the Fractional rig was the standard for the 1980-83 models. I too figured that he was speaking of the newer, fractional rig, then noticed he mentioned that she is a 1983 model, thus confirming the fractional rig. The 222 which was built from 1984-89 was always fractional rig.
That's all good. I was getting info from Sailboatdata.com, which we all know is a great resource, but not always accurate or complete. When it comes to O'day specs, I definitely bow down before the Amazing Sunbird! :D No, I'm serious and not being sarcastic, Sunbird knows so much, or he's got some amazing trove of original O'day literature. Kudos, sir, and your input is beyond valuable!
 
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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
I always thought of the Loos gauges as being pretty accurate. It's a very simple concept!
I've heard them described as not terribly accurate, specifically from the standpoint of being beat around, thrown in the bottom of sail bags (as is mine) and stuff like that.

I think if you used the same Loos as a relative measurement tool, you'd be seeing repeatable deltas in rig tension. But if you were comparing measurements of the same rig with different Loos, I bet you'd find a fair amount of variation.

I think it was a review of a new smartphone connected gauge from Spinlock that pointed out a lot of these issues with a Loos standard. The aluminum one you pull against and read the gauge.

I know with torque wrenches and spoke tensiometers, and our ski binding test torque wrench, (at the bike and ski shop) we need to send them in every year or two to be re-calibrated to make sure they give accurate and repeatable measurements.
 
Sep 25, 2017
10
O'day 22 Chattanooga
Thanks again everyone! It is indeed a fractional rig and I believe that is why the mast started bending so much.

I now have the boat floating and back together for the first time in years. We got the motor running, new plastic companion way boards made, new tiller, and the boat lights on the boat (not the mast) are now working. I still haven't had her under sail as the wind (and now mainsail) haven't been cooperating.

The mainsail needs work but I'm not sure how much work I should put into it as it appears to be original. If I decide to replace the main is it worth looking at used sales (I don't plan to race) or is that too much of a gamble?

It doesn't look like I'll be sailing this weekend after all but I have been able to take it out and putt around which was nice after all the work we have put into it.

Thanks again,
Stuart
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Sailboat2.jpg
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Looks very nice! I would encourage new sails if budget permits. There is nothing in the world like new sails! I like FX Sails. You can two in-shore, cross-cut, Dacron sails for just about $1k, and at this time of year, with a phone call, you can probably get a nice discount. No connection, just a happy customer.
 
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Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
That's all good. I was getting info from Sailboatdata.com, which we all know is a great resource, but not always accurate or complete. QUOTE]

Sailboatdata.com is the greatest, but their data isn't always perfect when it comes to models that were updated a few times like the O'DAY 22 (shoal-keel changed to K/CB, Masthead rig changed to fractional) or when there were two or more models with the same name/number, for instance the O'DAY 23, some details are mixed up. Still a good resource! By the way, check out the Widgeon there..... O'DAY made 3 different deck configurations over the years (I'll call them MK 1, MK2 an MK 3) Sailboatdata.com has a picture of the MK1 (vintage 1967), the side view drawing is a MK 2, and the top view is another Mk 1. (Those 2 drawings are ones that I had modified for my Widgeon Manual, based on ones published in O'DAY literature), they must have found them on-line, (I've posted them a few times like here) I'm not going to complain, since the CAL 21 drawings are from an owner's web-site, not CAL. That said, I would still recommend Sailboatdata.com as a good source of info! Check out their forum too, and the webmaster does have a category on the forum for submitting corrections.

Even Rudy (D&R Marine) gets mixed up sometimes, but I still trust his advice!
 
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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Nice looking boat.

Always get new sails. Always.

The reason we like new sails, is that we know they shape to the way they are cut. They are not baggy, and they respond to sail controls so that you can depower them as needed. They will sail faster, and with less heeling than an old stretched out sail.

Think about it - there was some reason somebody had old sails to sell. Sure, "the boat got destroyed but the sails were brand new and survived" is one reason, but unlikely. More likely is that someone decided the old sails were whupped, and decided to get new. So, the used sails you are likely to get are not going to perform as well as new.

Still, if you can't afford new, you could check out Bacon Sails in Annapolis for used sails.
 
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Sep 25, 2017
10
O'day 22 Chattanooga
Got her out under sail power alone for the first time, it was nice so nice to be sailing again! Last Saturday was a perfect day for sailing but I had a wedding to go to so Sunday was the first sail... and of course we had less than ideal wind. I still need to do some small projects and tune the rigging (and learn to how to haha) but the boat moved under sail power for the first time in years which was very exciting.

I had rather light wind but I did notice that the boat didn't want to point very well at all even with the center board down. I'm sure a new main would help with that but I'm hoping that I'm just a bit rusty trimming the sails.

Thanks again for all of the help!
Stuart
 
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Sep 25, 2017
10
O'day 22 Chattanooga
Yes I did, thank you again Roger! I was finally able to take the boat out in some real wind without fear of shredding my mainsail thanks to very night package from rojack2.

This boat is so much fun! My girlfriend and I had a wonderful day sailing; both the boat and my girlfriend did great. She had never been sailing before so it was a lot of fun showing her how everything worked and by the end of the day she was doing a great job with the lines.

Thank you again for all of the help, especially to Roger for the sail and main sail cover!
Stuart
 
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