Topping Lift with Dutchman flaking system

Jul 29, 2017
169
Catalina 380 Los Angeles
I have a problem with my Dutchman system in that when I release my topping lift to allow for better luff edge my boom will hit the top of our tall dodger when tacking. My Dutchman flaking lines are attached to my topping lift. Keeping the topping lift tight enough to lift the boom slightly causes the Dutchman lines to ruin the mainsail shape. My question for the group is this:
Should I cut the sail to allow for proper luff edge distance and add a separate Dutchman flaking line that will allow for adjustment of the topping lift when sailing off the wind?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Sounds like you are trying to fix the wrong problem. Am I correct assuming the Dutchman and topping lift are functioning properly? If so, the problem is the height of your dodger and nothing else.
Assuming you don't have a solid vang, installing one would allow better control of boom height while also benefiting main sail trim.
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I have the same system. The mainsail should be carrying the boom, not the topping lift/Dutchman. Like Don says. your bimini is too high. Mine is too. The PO solved it by using a cringle at the boom's aft end to gather the foot some. It's not ideal, but aside from recutting the sail, it works.
 
Dec 25, 2000
5,703
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
I have the same system. The mainsail should be carrying the boom, not the topping lift/Dutchman.
Ditto. I like our Dutchman system. The cut of our main is such that once it is raised I can ease the topping lift allowing the boom to drop to just above the main sheet traveler. Works quite well here. It appears, in this case, that the dodger needs to be lowered as opposed to cutting the main, IMHO.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Ditto. I like our Dutchman system. The cut of our main is such that once it is raised I can ease the topping lift allowing the boom to drop to just above the main sheet traveler. Works quite well here. It appears, in this case, that the dodger needs to be lowered as opposed to cutting the main, IMHO.
Good call Terry . I missed "dodger". My fix won't work.
 
Jul 29, 2017
169
Catalina 380 Los Angeles
If I lower the new dodger the Admiral had installed to 'her' specifications I will need to find a new boat...along with a new wife and a new life....LOL*. I do have a solid vang and it does serve to lift the boom enough but then the sail shape is all wrong. I need a way to tighten up the Dutchman lines when raising and lowering the sail but then a way to ease them without lowering the boom. Someone at the marina suggested a recut of the sail. I appreciate the input. All suggestions will be considered helpful as I work to try and solve this situation.
 
Jul 29, 2017
169
Catalina 380 Los Angeles
Terri, as I recall a Hunter carries it's traveler on the arch am I correct? My traveler is on the cabintop forward of the dodger. That's why I can't really do much with the boom.
 
Jul 29, 2017
169
Catalina 380 Los Angeles
As I sit and think about this, I am also wondering about the boom vang. Is it possible that the spring inside is not strong enough to lift the boom without tightening up the topping lift? If so is there a way to 'adjust' the tension to add lifting force to the vang?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
If I lower the new dodger the Admiral had installed to 'her' specifications I will need to find a new boat...along with a new wife and a new life....LOL*. I do have a solid vang and it does serve to lift the boom enough but then the sail shape is all wrong. I need a way to tighten up the Dutchman lines when raising and lowering the sail but then a way to ease them without lowering the boom. Someone at the marina suggested a recut of the sail. I appreciate the input. All suggestions will be considered helpful as I work to try and solve this situation.
I know this may not be helpful but can't you teach your wife to bend over even a little?
 
Jul 29, 2017
169
Catalina 380 Los Angeles
Hey Don...everyone's a comedian...actually she used to hit her head all the time on the dodger I had on my 30. She insisted on the tall dodger as a condition of buying this boat. I'm just trying to find a solution to "MY" problem which is she insisted on a "TALL" dodger.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Hey Don...everyone's a comedian...actually she used to hit her head all the time on the dodger I had on my 30. She insisted on the tall dodger as a condition of buying this boat. I'm just trying to find a solution to "MY" problem which is she insisted on a "TALL" dodger.
I can empathize with this. I have a wife too.:waycool:
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,919
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
I had the Dutchman on my h40.5 at one time. The boom would hit my bimini (not the dodger) if the vang were tightened. I shorted the bimini - TWICE! I could relax the topping lift without a boom-bimini hit, but as Justin NSA says the mainsail should carry the boom. Are you certain that the mainsail is being hoisted fully? In my case I think my bimini was just too high. But you have a dodger issue- not quite the same.

I now have a different setup with a boom solid strut, but with my vang I can still bend the boom down to touch the bimini. I may need to shorten it again. Fortunately I am only 5'6".
 
Dec 25, 2000
5,703
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Terri, as I recall a Hunter carries it's traveler on the arch am I correct? My traveler is on the cabintop forward of the dodger. That's why I can't really do much with the boom.
Yes, on our P42 model the trailer is attached to the arch.
 
Jan 22, 2008
55
Hunter 376 Point Roberts
When I release the topping lift the main (and it is a large main) on my 376 Hunter goes up (and down) a lot easier.
I wonder if there is a "happy medium" so the topping lift does not have to adjusted every time the sail is up..or down?
 
Dec 25, 2000
5,703
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
When I release the topping lift the main (and it is a large main) on my 376 Hunter goes up (and down) a lot easier.
I wonder if there is a "happy medium" so the topping lift does not have to adjusted every time the sail is up..or down?
A few years ago I made the mistake of, for the first time, easing the topping lift before raising the main. The main halyard and topping lift halyard have their own sheave right next to each other. Well, when I got the main up half way, something caused the eased/slacked topping lift halyard to skip over onto the main halyard sheave and jammed. Could not raise or lower the main any further. Headed for a local nearby marina and hired a mast monkey to unjam the two. Needless to say I now always leave the topping lift halyard trimmed until the main is completely up before easing.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Are you easing your mainsheet when raising the main? Failing to do so will keep the main from being fully raised. Then when you ease the topping lift, the boom will fall too far.
 
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pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
When I raise my main fully, the topping lift slacks and my boom rises. If I really try to flatten the main with the vang, I have to let some slack out of the topping lift. My lazy jack have their own adjustment, and can be slacked enough to bring them fully forward to the mast to hook them on the reefing hooks. Makes it much easier to reinstall the main on the boom with them out of the way.
 
Jan 22, 2008
55
Hunter 376 Point Roberts
Hunters (376) don't have backstays. The only thing coming down from the top of the mast to hold the boom is the topping lift. So jamming is not an issue. Yes, I do slack mainsheet when I pull my main up. It helps... but it is still a struggle because the main is so large and heavy.
 
Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
I've got a tall(er) dodger on my C36, and occasionally have problems if I sheet in too far close-hauled. I think that if you are trying to solve your boom height problems with a topping lift, you are off-base and getting poor sail shape as a consequence. I suggest that you re-evaluate the age and shape of your main. Depending on the age, you may not need a new main, but a simple re-cutting (tummy tuck) to have the boom at the proper height for your rig.

Agprice22 has an excellent suggestion that you ease any downward forces when raising sail such as main sheet, cunningham, and boom vang -- let the main and boom rise fully, and lock it in up there. Then try to lower the boom to shape the sail. In any case, your topping lift is only needed when not sailing or to mount your dutchman. It's not a sail control.
 
Jun 9, 2004
615
Catalina 385 Marquette. Mi
You do know that you can slacken the monofilaments by adjusting the control line on your topping lift? Or your solid vang is weak or too short.
Someone told me once that he could always tell an American sailboat.....by the height of its dodger. :)
 
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