Carbon Monoxide

All U Get

All U Get

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Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Hi all,

Just saw the morning news and ABC ran a piece on CO levels on boats motoring on the water. The article showed a power boat slowly traveling along and an individual from ABYC sampling the air at the rear of the boat and swim platform. The levels were reported high enough to be concerned. They also attributed some drowning's to CO in the blood. Has anyone else seen this report?

All U Get
 
Don S/V ILLusion

Don S/V ILLusion

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Sep 25, 2008
7,095
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Didn't see it but I wonder how those results compare to driving in traffic with the windows open (or closed)
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,398
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Haven't seen this specific report, but there have been a number of similar reports in the past. One of the big culprits are generators running on house boats. The CO accumulates around the stern where folks are swimming. It is also known as the Station Wagon effect, an area of low air pressure forms behind the moving vehicle (boat or car) and the exhaust is pulled back up and inside the open station wagon door.

One way to reduce the hazard is to make certain there is adequate air flow from the front of the boat to the open stern.

Because of their slow speeds, sailboats are partially immune from this problem, however, when motoring downwind where the wind speed is just slightly faster than the boat speed, exhaust will flow up into the cockpit.
 
Boomer54

Boomer54

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Feb 3, 2015
299
Marlow Hunter 37 Reefpoint Marina Racine, WI
Houston, we have a problem. My new 2014 Hunter has 3 hard wired CO monitors. I wound up removing all 3. It appears humidity causes them to go off. I did some research and purchased three battery operated monitors which were not "officially" approved for marine use by the manufacturer but many people stated they would work. They didn't. So, I do not have CO monitors on board. Have CO monitors gotten any better in a marine environment?
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
9,892
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
The CO problem is mostly about gasoline engines, usually inboard or inboard/outboard, larger units.. Because diesels run with a lot of "excess air", they generate much less CO and what they do generate is diluted by the excess air pumping through the engine not being used for combustion.. not a problem on a sailboat unless it has an Atomic 4 or other gasoline inboard .. OMC saildrive maybe?
The CO detectors on Sailboats are mostly for propane stoves or hydrocarbon fueled heaters.
 
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AaronD

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
I can't find a reference now, but I think I recall reading of some CO poisoning incidents attributed to generators on neighboring boats Maybe those stories are apocryphal (or my own faulty memory). But I'm paranoid enough that I was easily convinced to install a CO detector. It's an easy install, and the power draw is negligible (my Xintex model is rated at 16 mA).
 
C

Calif. Ted

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Jun 8, 2004
2,855
Catalina 320 Dana Point
There were a number of deaths reported here due to "teak surfing" mainly a swimmer hanging on to the swim step and being dragged behind the boat, mostly on the Colorado river it seemed. Teak surfing was outlawed and boats are now required to have a decal on the helm warning of teak surfing dangers, I haven't seen one of those decals in years, I sure never put one on my sailboats.
http://dbw.parks.ca.gov/pages/28702/files/FS_CarbonMonoxide.pdf
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Mark Maulden said:
What's the definition of a "motorboat?
Click to expand
A boat with a motor. Gas OB to diesel IB, it does not matter. If your boat has a motor, you are a motorboat. Here is the MN law, sticker portion in effect now. Monitor(s) by next April.

The law applies to any motorboat, with the spaces defined above, operating on Minnesota waters. This includes the Minnesota side of border waters and federal waters within the state. A motorboat includes sailboats with motors and documented boats.
Click to expand
coposter-lg.jpg


Full DNR statement here.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/boatwater/sophias-law.html
 
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cb32863

cb32863

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Jun 29, 2010
1,287
Beneteau First 235 Lake Minnetonka, MN
plenny7 said:
Did you see that the law now doesn't take effect until next year? I've heard it has to do with availability of battery powered CO detectors.
Click to expand
Yep, plus that $100+ price tag. I found some online for around $87 though so..... Being a "yacht owner" I guess I should be able to afford those....
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
cb32863 said:
Yep, plus that $100+ price tag. I found some online for around $87 though so..... Being a "yacht owner" I guess I should be able to afford those....
Click to expand
One? You need two.

Motorboats, regardless of fuel type, must have a functioning marine CO detector if they have an enclosed accommodation compartment, which is defined as a motorboat with all of the following:

  1. Designated sleeping accommodations
  2. A galley area with a sink
  3. A head (toilet) compartment
Enclosed occupancy compartment is defined as:
One contiguous space surrounded by boat structure that may be occupied by a person

If your boat just has an occupancy compartment you are not required by law to have a CO detector in the space, however, it is highly recommended for the safety of all passengers that a detector be placed in any enclosed compartment.

A detector is required in each of the sleeping quarters and in the main cabin area per the American Boat and Yacht Council A-24 Standard. Supplementing with additional low level CO monitors will alert passengers sooner of the presence of carbon monoxide which can be harmful at low levels/under 30ppm.
 
cb32863

cb32863

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Jun 29, 2010
1,287
Beneteau First 235 Lake Minnetonka, MN
Jackdaw said:
One? You need two.

Motorboats, regardless of fuel type, must have a functioning marine CO detector if they have an enclosed accommodation compartment, which is defined as a motorboat with all of the following:

  1. Designated sleeping accommodations
  2. A galley area with a sink
  3. A head (toilet) compartment
Enclosed occupancy compartment is defined as:
One contiguous space surrounded by boat structure that may be occupied by a person

If your boat just has an occupancy compartment you are not required by law to have a CO detector in the space, however, it is highly recommended for the safety of all passengers that a detector be placed in any enclosed compartment.

A detector is required in each of the sleeping quarters and in the main cabin area per the American Boat and Yacht Council A-24 Standard. Supplementing with additional low level CO monitors will alert passengers sooner of the presence of carbon monoxide which can be harmful at low levels/under 30ppm.
Click to expand
I was wondering if the berth under the cockpit qualified as a different space..... even better. So do you need 3 then as the head area between the main salon and the v-berth is technically enclosed as well?
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

.
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
cb32863 said:
I was wondering if the berth under the cockpit qualified as a different space..... even better. So do you need 3 then as the head area between the main salon and the v-berth is technically enclosed as well?
Click to expand
No, just 2. Look at the sticker.
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,398
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
cb32863 said:
I was wondering if the berth under the cockpit qualified as a different space..... even better. So do you need 3 then as the head area between the main salon and the v-berth is technically enclosed as well?
Click to expand
Jackdaw said:
No, just 2. Look at the sticker.
Click to expand
Interesting question. If the quarter berth is open to the main cabin, then perhaps it counts as part of the main cabin. However, larger boats often have a door between the quarter berth and the main cabin, that would make it a separate sleeping accommodation.

In a smaller boat, there might not be a door separating the V-berth from the main cabin, then would the entire cabin count as the sleeping accommodation, thus requiring only 1 CO detector?
 
plenny7

plenny7

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Oct 3, 2014
261
Marlow-Hunter MH37 Lake City, MN
dlochner said:
Interesting question. If the quarter berth is open to the main cabin, then perhaps it counts as part of the main cabin. However, larger boats often have a door between the quarter berth and the main cabin, that would make it a separate sleeping accommodation.

In a smaller boat, there might not be a door separating the V-berth from the main cabin, then would the entire cabin count as the sleeping accommodation, thus requiring only 1 CO detector?
Click to expand
Speaking only for the Minnesota law, the first violation is only a warning, and the second violation just a petty misdemeanor ($25?). If you wanted to get away with the bare minimum, don't install any. *If* you ever get checked and get a warning you can ask at that time.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
plenny7 said:
Speaking only for the Minnesota law, the first violation is only a warning, and the second violation just a petty misdemeanor ($25?). If you wanted to get away with the bare minimum, don't install any. *If* you ever get checked and get a warning you can ask at that time.
Click to expand
You do realize that these things are designed to protect you? Do you have smoke detectors in your house?
 
Johnb

Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,421
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
For what its worth - when a chunk fell out of my mixing elbow both the CO and smoke alarms sounded.
When we motored with a rented Morgan out Island 41 with the transom portlights open, the aft cabin filled with exhaust smoke so thick the air looked blue. Someone sleeping in there may have been killed.
These 2 events confirmed my belief - CO detection is worth having
 
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