1997 Hunter 336 Keel Question

[AgentGordy]

Hello I have a Hunter 336 that I recently bought from the original owner. He maintained the boat perfectly from day one and spared no expense with the marina. I launched in Oct 2021 after 2 years on the hard. I've calculated about .68 gallons of water is coming in around the front keel bolt. I discovered this when the bilge pump broke and after 3 days, it was pretty full. I calculated the amount of flow over a few days. I replaced the bilge pump and am planning on hauling in 3 weeks to address the keel. Any advice on what we should be addressing? Is it possible the bolts might just need tightening? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Hard to know the cause or the fix until you can inspect the keel joint.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I can only speak from my own personal view, but being a maintenance freak on my own H-310, I would consult a Hunter/Marlowe expert as to their recommendation on a problem like this. A question to this site may reveal just how to contact such a person. Unless I'm mistaken, there is a pay per question session now available. Research on your part will either confirm or deny this idea.

What worries me is that the SS keel bolts (one or more) have likely been exposed to crevice corrosion for who knows how long and who knows what damage has been done. If severe corrosion has taken place, a check on the torque would likely only reveal bolt(s) frozen in position regardless of whether tight or not.

 

[sail sfbay]

Great idea.............to contact the former Hunter employees you can do that through their service request SailboatOwners.com customer service. Last time I used it to get some guidance on electronic conduit routing and cost $50.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Great idea.............to contact the former Hunter employees you can do that through their service request SailboatOwners.com customer service.

Thanks for confirming that, @sail sfbay . Good to know the thought wasn't entirely due to a bad LSD flashback.

 

[Tally Ho]

How do you know it is leaking from a keel bolt?
My boat sits on the hard every winter here on the Great Lakes….covered with a custom canvas cover…and every year when I launch, I seem to get water in the bilge. I used to worry about it, but now, after a week in the water, the water stops and the bilge dries out. I suspect I have water trapped under the floor pan (boat on stands with the nose up higher than she sits in the water). It runs into the bilge when the boat is on her lines….

Then once I pump it out, all is dry.

Greg

 

[chuckwayne]

I agree with Tally Ho - We've had the same problem - on the 356, if she's bow up on the cradle water can flow under the engine pan and just sits. When she gets back on her lines, it flows back into the bilge and looks like you've got a leak. Open the access panel in front of the companionway stairs and look aft. There's a large opening on each side of the shower sump for cables. look in, and if you see water, that's likely where it's coming from. I reach in with a 1/2" hose attached to a wet vac after Escape is on her cradle but I never seem to get it all; but it's gone after she's been afloat for a while.
If you haul her, check the fairing putty around the hull/keel joint (not structural) and see if you can see the adhesive caulk underneath - if it's damaged, it's possible for there to be a leak -but not too likely. The keel is effectively glued on and then bolted. When people decide to remove the keel, they remove the nuts and lift the hull; and the 5000 lb. keel stays with the boat and has to be brute force pried off. Even hitting something hard isn't likely to do damage - the lead can absorb a huge amount of force (don't ask).

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I replaced the bilge pump and am planning on hauling in 3 weeks to address the keel.

I know I always preach to address the simplest and cheapest ideas first. @Tally Ho 's and @chuckwayne 's idea of water under the floor pan should definitely be your first target.

Measure the amount of water after a few days to get an exact rate of inflow and see if the rate decreases over time. You may also want to drop a few coins in the church's poor box to see if that helps .

 

[Techstyle]

like others have eluded to - check every through hull for leakage, around the engine in the raw water circuit (especially the little hole in the water pump). Also, make sure you check how often the stuffing box leaks (mine was leaking bad by the end of the season). Its not uncommon for the potable water plumbing pipes to leak, especially under the settee, in front of the sink where the hotwater tank is. it is also not uncommon for some of the deck fixtures to leak and in some cases that water can go to the bilge without showing up inside.

Another place I have seen water coming in is down the cables/ropes in the mast and then down the compression post to the bilge.

how rainy was it when you noticed it filling up

Best Regards,
SV Après
1996 Hunter 336

 

[FastOlson]

There are a significant number of owners of sailboats over 20 or 25 years old who believe that their hull-to-keel connection will *never* need renewing. They are, as the saying goes, "laboring under a misconception."
Crevice corrosion to the bolts can & will happen, and leaks do not heal up with slathering on sealant on the outside of a joint.
Better to just find a competent yard (perhaps the hardest part part of this maintenance) and have the keel re-bedded. We have done this once, and with never a bit seepage since plan to wait about 30 years before doing that again.

(Big Sigh.... anyone else recall those glossy ads from the 60's for "maintenance free fiberglass boats" ? )

 

[PaulK]

(Big Sigh.... anyone else recall those glossy ads from the 60's for "maintenance free fiberglass boats" ? )

It's the fiberglass that's maintenance-free. The rest of it, maybe not.

 

[AgentGordy]

I can only speak from my own personal view, but being a maintenance freak on my own H-310, I would consult a Hunter/Marlowe expert as to their recommendation on a problem like this. A question to this site may reveal just how to contact such a person. Unless I'm mistaken, there is a pay per question session now available. Research on your part will either confirm or deny this idea.

What worries me is that the SS keel bolts (one or more) have likely been exposed to crevice corrosion for who knows how long and who knows what damage has been done. If severe corrosion has taken place, a check on the torque would likely only reveal bolt(s) frozen in position regardless of whether tight or not.

Thanks for writing. I believe it just started in October. Looking at the keel bolts from the bilge they still show a stainless finish and no rust, so I hope that's a good sign. I dried the bilge completely then put a paper napkin down and slowly the napkin got wet around the front keel bolt. That is what I've been able to isolate so far.

 

[AgentGordy]

There are a significant number of owners of sailboats over 20 or 25 years old who believe that their hull-to-keel connection will *never* need renewing. They are, as the saying goes, "laboring under a misconception."
Crevice corrosion to the bolts can & will happen, and leaks do not heal up with slathering on sealant on the outside of a joint.
Better to just find a competent yard (perhaps the hardest part part of this maintenance) and have the keel re-bedded. We have done this once, and with never a bit seepage since plan to wait about 30 years before doing that again.

(Big Sigh.... anyone else recall those glossy ads from the 60's for "maintenance free fiberglass boats" ? )

Hi, Thank you for the response. That is what I will most likely do. I'm hauling Feb. 7th and have a thirty-year experienced boat guy who has done many re bedding. $110.00 per hour and he figures about 20 hours. Another $400.00 for hauling so I might be done at just under $3,000.00 and I can live with that.

 

[AgentGordy]

like others have eluded to - check every through hull for leakage, around the engine in the raw water circuit (especially the little hole in the water pump). Also, make sure you check how often the stuffing box leaks (mine was leaking bad by the end of the season). Its not uncommon for the potable water plumbing pipes to leak, especially under the settee, in front of the sink where the hotwater tank is. it is also not uncommon for some of the deck fixtures to leak and in some cases that water can go to the bilge without showing up inside.

Another place I have seen water coming in is down the cables/ropes in the mast and then down the compression post to the bilge.

how rainy was it when you noticed it filling up

Best Regards,
SV Après
1996 Hunter 336

Note raining at all. Definitely coming from bilge. Was just under the floorboards after noticing the bilge pump didn't go off for 4 or 5 days. Totally pumped it out and 2 days later it was almost up to the boards again. Stuffing box is dry and no other water entering from any part of the boat. Thanks for writing.

 

[AgentGordy]

How do you know it is leaking from a keel bolt?
My boat sits on the hard every winter here on the Great Lakes….covered with a custom canvas cover…and every year when I launch, I seem to get water in the bilge. I used to worry about it, but now, after a week in the water, the water stops and the bilge dries out. I suspect I have water trapped under the floor pan (boat on stands with the nose up higher than she sits in the water). It runs into the bilge when the boat is on her lines….

Then once I pump it out, all is dry.

Greg

I totally dried out the keel and then put a paper napkin down. The napkin slowly started getting wet around the front keel bolt.

 

[Tally Ho]

I totally dried out the keel and then put a paper napkin down. The napkin slowly started getting wet around the front keel bolt.

Well, that does sound like it is coming in around a bolt. Sorry.

Not sure that there is an easy fix for that. I plan to drop my keel (probably in a few years when I am retired) to rebed, check bolts, etc.

Greg

 

[Techstyle]

I totally dried out the keel and then put a paper napkin down. The napkin slowly started getting wet around the front keel bolt.

Sounds like you may have to deal with a "Hunter Smile". check out this thread "Hunter smile" there is a post from a Hunter 340 owner, which is the same as the 336 - looks like he had the same issue

 

[DeniseO30]

I don't know about your boat but are the transducers ahead of the keel? They usually are, they may be leaking and giving you the perception that it's a front keel bolt. And I don't know this is all about contacting a hunter Marlowe, online when you should be contacting somebody in real time like a surveyor because the previous owner lied, have you determined if it's seawater or rain/freshwater? Could be a leaking water heater could be leaking water tanks as mentioned it could be the packing gland,. The water tanks are pretty big on your boat lots of investigating to do!

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I dried the bilge completely then put a paper napkin down and slowly the napkin got wet around the front keel bolt.

Forget my idea about dropping a few coins in the poor box . That's just not going to help in this case.