Catalina Keel Repair/Wrapping Keel vs recommended stub repair catalina recommends

Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
I have 1976 catalina Tall rig that does not leak but bolts are pretty rusted. Trying to decide which option I want to do.
i would love to hear from anyone that has done either. How long it takes.Also would love to see pictures of before and after if possible.
thanks
Tim
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,739
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
I had one of those with the same problem. Catalina supplied a procedure for sistering up the keel bolts which I used successfully. It was difficult to accomplish, however. That was a long time ago and I no longer have that boat. I do not remember how long the modification took. Good luck.
 
Feb 26, 2009
716
Oday 30 Anchor Yacht Club, Bristol PA
I think it was up until 1988 Catalina used plywood in the keel stubs which could turn into mush from water intrusion.
You say wrapping the keeI think you mean putting fiberglass around the joint? No, that is not a proper repair, it's just a Band-Aid doesn't really fix a loose keel or the smile.
You can use the lag bolt
pair recommend by Catalina and as stated it's been used with success but, you still need to address the bad keel bolts. they're not going to get any better.
Yes I know dropping any keel is thousands of dollars, but you knew that when you bought a boat!
 
Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
I've had this boat since 2014, engineer told me there is very little to worry about because no intrusion from underneath the bolts are rusted due to coming in from above at one time and I corrected the leaks from above. "Never said anything about a catalina smile" Engineer checked it out and said sistering a lead keel is not a great idea he recommended wrapping it if it makes me feel better and would never have to worry again. Not like Catalina recommends for a smile but to wrap keel connecting it to the hull and down the lead keel were it would become part of the hull. Some people have told me they have done it and no longer worry about grounding or keel leaking or coming off. Never had chance to ask exactly how they have done it.
I want to dig the old fiberglass and wood out of bilge and put the 6 coats of fiberglass, engineer told me that he is pretty sure the threads are good below the nut.
Just trying to decide which way I want to do it. " how long I want to be in boat yard.
 
Last edited:

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,739
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Those J bolts and nuts are galvanized and not stainless. Big mistake there. The sistering I mentioned required horizontally drilling through the keel and vertically drilling down through the bilge intersecting holes. Then new stainless sister hardware was installed. Not lag bolts. Hard job.
 
Feb 26, 2009
716
Oday 30 Anchor Yacht Club, Bristol PA
"Engineer said" how the heck does that mean anything to anybody???

Without a physical inspection, x-ray, ultrasound, etc. you really don't know the condition of your keel bolts.

Putting fiberglass over a mechanical joint that by nature does flex, a little bit or a lot depending on the boat and design. is only cosmetic & just hides the joint.
then..
How do you plan to get fiberglass to bond to lead?
it will stick, but it will not Bond like fiberglass and epoxy does to itself... screws and washers maybe?
 
Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
Those J bolts and nuts are galvanized and not stainless. Big mistake there. The sistering I mentioned required horizontally drilling through the keel and vertically drilling down through the bilge intersecting holes. Then new stainless sister hardware was installed. Not lag bolts. Hard job.
I do not and don't plan on lags in a lead keel. If I install new bolt I plan on doing it the correct way as you did.
I was thinking the option of digging plywood out and doing as Catalina said do. Only if bolts and threads are acceptable.
I'm just trying to see what others have done.
 
Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
"Engineer said" how the heck does that mean anything to anybody???

Without a physical inspection, x-ray, ultrasound, etc. you really don't know the condition of your keel bolts.

Putting fiberglass over a mechanical joint that by nature does flex, a little bit or a lot depending on the boat and design. is only cosmetic & just hides the joint.
then..
How do you plan to get fiberglass to bond to lead?
it will stick, but it will not Bond like fiberglass and epoxy does to itself... screws and washers maybe?
Denise
I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong or right. I do not have a Catalina smile and was just saying what he recommended if I was worried about rusted bolts.
Wanted to see if anyone had done a wrap of their keel. The sump dig is pretty straight forward and wanted to see how long it took someone to do it. If the bolts are in question I will do what is necessary and if I have to drop keel I will take a different direction.
 
Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
Those J bolts and nuts are galvanized and not stainless. Big mistake there. The sistering I mentioned required horizontally drilling through the keel and vertically drilling down through the bilge intersecting holes. Then new stainless sister hardware was installed. Not lag bolts. Hard job.
How long did it take to do the keel bolts the way you did it. I have been researching for a while now looking for safest yet affordable way. How would you recommend drilling verticle plumb hole to connect with horizontal larger hole? Any advice on how to line the holes up to intersect?
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,739
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
How to align intersecting holes? Good question. I do not remember how I did that, but I do remember pondering that question back then. Try finding the center of the bilge and then the center of the keel/hull interface outside as a possible starting place. Once you get the first one lined up, the rest are easy. Drilling horizontally was difficult, I recall. The lead is one thing, but there were lots of contaminants in the lead, like red brick pieces, for example. I did that procedure over twenty years ago BTW. I cannot say how long it took me. If I did it, you can do it. Courage!
 
Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
How to align intersecting holes? Good question. I do not remember how I did that, but I do remember pondering that question back then. Try finding the center of the bilge and then the center of the keel/hull interface outside as a possible starting place. Once you get the first one lined up, the rest are easy. Drilling horizontally was difficult, I recall. The lead is one thing, but there were lots of contaminants in the lead, like red brick pieces, for example. I did that procedure over twenty years ago BTW. I cannot say how long it took me. If I did it, you can do it. Courage!
Thank you Roy.
 
Feb 26, 2009
716
Oday 30 Anchor Yacht Club, Bristol PA
Chalk line on a Long straight board through the port windows, plumb bob over the center of the Keel or if you're lucky enough to get a plumb bob centered on top of a keel bolt.

Outside on the bottom of the board with the chalk line drop another plumb bob outside the boat

you could probably do this with one or two laser levels also
Laser level up from the Keel bolt or bolts mark so it can be seen from outside use a laser level to go from the outside mark down the side of the boat to the kee.
Sounds doable I've used similar techniques on smaller boat when we were building and restoring.
 
Jun 20, 2021
10
Catalina 1976 Catalina 27 Tall rig Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk Va
Chalk line on a Long straight board through the port windows, plumb bob over the center of the Keel or if you're lucky enough to get a plumb bob centered on top of a keel bolt.

Outside on the bottom of the board with the chalk line drop another plumb bob outside the boat

you could probably do this with one or two laser levels also
Laser level up from the Keel bolt or bolts mark so it can be seen from outside use a laser level to go from the outside mark down the side of the boat to the kee.
Sounds doable I've used similar techniques on smaller boat when we were building and restoring.
Good idea. I've been thinking about using my laser level that shoots a horizontal and vertical beam which I use in construction. Just need to figure where to position in boat or outside boat. The plumb Bob s great idea.
Thanks
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,739
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
IMHO the plumb bob will only work if keel bolts are exactly plumb and board through ports is exactly perpendicular to boat centerline when you perform this procedure. You would need three plumb bobs and a chalk line. The height of the plumb bob attachment will amplify any error. Apply windage like Davey Crockett and squeeze the trigger. Regardless of how you determine the intersection; drill the first horizontal hole as large as you dare to improve your chances of intersecting the vertical hole. One of the problems that I recall was that the drill bits that I used for the horizontal holes in the lead keel were designed for wood. They worked in the lead until they hit the red brick which quickly dulled them and a new bit was needed. No idea why there was red brick in there.
 
Feb 26, 2009
716
Oday 30 Anchor Yacht Club, Bristol PA
IMHO the plumb bob will only work if keel bolts are exactly plumb and board through ports is exactly perpendicular to boat centerline when you perform this procedure. You would need three plumb bobs and a chalk line. The height of the plumb bob attachment will amplify any error. Apply windage like Davey Crockett and squeeze the trigger. Regardless of how you determine the intersection; drill the first horizontal hole as large as you dare to improve your chances of intersecting the vertical hole. One of the problems that I recall was that the drill bits that I used for the horizontal holes in the lead keel were designed for wood. They worked in the lead until they hit the red brick which quickly dulled them and a new bit was needed. No idea why there was red brick in there.
It's not for me to figure out the logistics of it all but it still means dropping to keel or at least dropping it enough to see The mating surfaces.

I think the few Keel building shops there are like Mars use torches to melt the lead.

The red brick could have been oxidized stuff that is part of the melting process of lead I think it looks like red brick when it's cold. But like any builders would do, there could be fillers in there because of the cost of lead is so high even back when they were building the things