Adding Internal Spinnaker Halyard / Sanity Check

[SkookumZac]

Hi all,

I am about to cut a hole in my mast and before I make an expensive mistake I'd like to run it by you.

Boat: Hunter 23.5
Mast: US Spars Z-190

I am adding an internal spinnaker halyard to my mast. It was factory option for this boat model but mine was not equipped when purchased. Therefore my mast only has a forestay T-ball slot and a jib halyard.


I ordered an oem 'Combi Box' from US Spars which has both halyards and forestay attachment all in one. (Part No. 3283)


I am going to cut out the original forestay slot and install it there. I will try to line up the new forestay pin with the old slot. I am also having my rigger replace the T-Ball on my forestay with an Eye.


The existing jib halyard sheave I will just leave in place, maybe use as a topping lift or spare.

Any advice or considerations I am missing? Is this too drastic? Should just install another Jib Halyard Sheave above the forestay instead?

Thanks!

-Z

 

[Sailfanatic]

EDITED: The proper way to mount a spinnaker halyard is to locate it so it is above the forestay. A halyard installed below the forestay is a jib halyard, you can use a jib halyard for a cruising chute, but you need a actual spinnaker for a symmetric or a asym tacked to a sprit.

 

[Joe]

Looks to me like you have it figured out. If it were me I wouldn't touch the old jib halyard... why move it? You'll end up with a hole in your mast. You can use it for a topping lift for your spinnaker or whisker poles if it doesn't interfere with the new jib halyard location, or even keep using it if you don't like the new jib halyard. Make sure the new forestay connection lines up with the old, maintaining your geometry and minimizing any changes to the wire (I guess you'll need a new forestay anyway since you're converting the terminal) Just remember that except for the spinnaker halyard block, all headsails will connect to the halyard BELFOW the forestay. The combo fitting has the forestay pin between the spinnaker sheave on top(notice the casting allows for side to side movement of the spin halyard) and the jib halyard below.

 

[dlochner]

The proper way to mount a spinnaker halyard is hang it from a crane off the mast head so it is above the forestay. A halyard installed below the forestay is a jib halyard, you can use a jib halyard for a cruising chute, but you need a actual spinnaker for a symmetric or a asym tacked to a sprit.

That depends. On fractional rigs the spinnaker halyard exits from the mast much lower.

The Hunter 23.5 is a fractional rig and does not appear to have a back stay. The Spin halyard will need to be located where there is support for the mast to counter act the forward force of the spinnaker. Some larger boats, use running backstays for this purpose.

 

[Sailfanatic]

...... Just remember that except for the spinnaker halyard block, all headsails will connect to the halyard BELFOW the forestay. The combo fitting has the forestay pin between the spinnaker sheave on top(notice the casting allows for side to side movement of the spin halyard) and the jib halyard below.

Your comment makes sense, provided the combo box is installed with the forestay lower than the halyard exit. It looks like the OP has the replacement fitting upside down in the photos, as it is oriented so the spinnaker block is below the forestay, with the forestay higher on the mast, which apparent orientation prompted my comment above.

 

[Sailfanatic]

That depends. On fractional rigs the spinnaker halyard exits from the mast much lower.

....

You are correct, my comment was specific to masthead rigs, so I have corrected it.

 

[jssailem]

I guess I was born with a defect. When in contemplation of such momentous modifications, I like to open the manual. The diagram indicates the spinnaker halyard exits the mast above the forestay.

This makes sense in that flying the spinnaker occurs out in front of the boat. With a halyard inside (below the forestay) the spinnaker will hang up when you try to tack (gybe) the spinnaker to the alternate side of the boat.
******
Note, I would not use the purchased duo shroud/halyard block in this application.

 

[Sailfanatic]

I guess I was born with a defect. When in contemplation of such momentous modifications, I like to open the manual. The diagram indicates the spinnaker halyard exits the mast above the forestay.
View attachment 199598

This makes sense in that flying the spinnaker occurs out in front of the boat. With a halyard inside (below the forestay) the spinnaker will hang up when you try to tack (gybe) the spinnaker to the alternate side of the boat.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
Many sailors do fly their cruising chutes using a "jib" halyard (a halyard exiting below the forestay) and can do so without any problems, provided they jibe the sail inside, ie aft of the forestay. A symmetric spinnaker or an asym tacked to a sprit MUST jibe in front of the forestay, thus their requirement for a real "spinnaker" halyard, ie a halyard located above the forestay.

 

[twistedskipper]

There is nothing wrong with the pictured fitting the OP is considering.

It has a jib halyard sheave beneath the stay point and a spinnaker halyard sheave above it, with a nice fairlead allowing the spinnaker halyard to operate at angles to the sheave.

 

[jssailem]

Twisted... We will have to agree to disagree.
From my perspective, the image shows the sheave for the halyard to be beneath the shroud attachment. Much like the current structure where the OP states the foreshroud is above the exit box for the sheave that will be used provide a topping lift.

The top of the mast is to the right in the image.

 

[twistedskipper]

The spinnaker sheave is more recessed than the jib halyard sheave, but it is there.

 

[Sailfanatic]

The spinnaker sheave is more recessed than the jib halyard sheave, but it is there.
View attachment 199606

Not a a chance, that slot is for the forestay, not a halyard.

I think this combi box may be the wrong gear for a spinnaker on this mast, unless the OP has some specific, explicit documentation that argues otherwise. If I were to install it, I'd get a rigger to confirm the correct entry direction of the forestay before fitting the box.

A given is - spinnaker halyard needs to be mounted above/ahead of the forestay. In the Hunter doc posted in #7 above, the image references for point "A" , clearly located above the forestay, and a spinnaker block identified as a Schaefer block 303-71. No "combi box" in sight.

The text in the image references a spinnaker exit 1 and 1/2" above the forestay, implying an internal halyard. Personally I 'd just add a swivel block at "A" and run the halyard externally, which is something I've done on several boats. An external spinnaker halyard has both some pros and cons, but a major pro, is the absolute ease of installation.

 

[twistedskipper]

The forestay attaches to the pin at the middle of the fitting. Between the two sheaves. Am I wearing funny glasses or something?

 

[Sailfanatic]

The forestay attaches to the pin at the middle of the fitting. Between the two sheaves. Am I wearing funny glasses or something?View attachment 199609

Correct, I didn't see the pin. Is there in fact a second sheave above the pin, or is that just an exit box? Regardless then, this box would in fact seem to be used with the external halyard block identified as the 303-71 or something similar.

 

[Joe]

It's important to examine both boat rig and the fitting when offering opinions. First... the boat is a fractional rig. Second, the reason It's called a "combo" is because there is an opening above the forestay fitting (it's fluted to allow for spin halyard's lateral movement) with the sheave plainly visible inside the opening... and there is a jib halyard block attached below the forestay pin. The spinnaker only fitting version of this fitting is similar and pretty common. Putting the forestay hound, the jib halyard hound and the spin fitting on the mast separately is done... but this nifty metal combination certainly removes the clutter.

The question I'd want discussed is: "Will failure of one part of this combo result in total rig failure?" Or is it safer than separate hounds or fittings?

 

[jssailem]

Ok @TWISTED. I did not blowup the image to find a hidden from view sheave. You appear correct in that the fitting is a "universal" do everything fitting.

That acknowledged. I would choose to not use that fitting to address the needs of the poster. For me that is too much going on in one place on the mast. For me, I want the halyards and the forestay to have separate attachment points. I do not know, if or when I may need to use the halyard to replace the forestay. I want to have that option in my bag should it be needed.

Not to say my needs are better or worse. To use a single point for all functions on a boat is the owner's choice.