I am a 2 season new owner of a 1987 Catalina 30 and wanted to know if it was normal for water to come out of the stanchion vent when pumping the head? Is this just overflow if the tank is full? I pumped it out completely at the end of the season last year and this season on the first couple flushes I have noticed water exiting the small hole on the port side stanchion. I look forward to any thoughts.
Head pumping and stanchion vent
- Thread starter Freespirit3087
- Start date
FR,
Years ago in my C30, the vent had a buildup that partially blocked the venting.
I removed the stanchion, cleaned it & have not had a problem since.
If I see water bubbling out, it usually means the tank is too full.
Or, if you have a wet vac, remove the vent hose & fire that puppy up to clear the vent.
Another thing to look at is how the vent line is run. if there is a trap-like dip in the line, this could also be the culprit as water will collect in it.
Years ago in my C30, the vent had a buildup that partially blocked the venting.
I removed the stanchion, cleaned it & have not had a problem since.
If I see water bubbling out, it usually means the tank is too full.
Or, if you have a wet vac, remove the vent hose & fire that puppy up to clear the vent.
Another thing to look at is how the vent line is run. if there is a trap-like dip in the line, this could also be the culprit as water will collect in it.
Hi freespirit...I see you've just joined us....welcome aboard sbo.com!
Your tank is prob'ly full and overflowing out the vent. A stanchion is a great place for a fuel or water tank vent 'cuz putting there with the openings on the aft side of the stanchion keeps seawater out of the fuel and water tanks. But it's the worst possible place for a holding tank vent for a couple of reasons...openings (slit or pinholes) are so small that they're easily clogged by waste overflowing from an overfull tank and/or just heeling hard enough...and they can't allow enough air exchange with gasses in the tank to create the aerobic environment needed to prevent odor out the vent. Catalina now runs most if not all waste tank thru-hulls to a vent fitting on the hull just below the stanchion and a lot of owners have moved theirs to new thru-hulls in the hull too. There have been several recent threads about this...I suggest you find 'em, read 'em and then strongly consider relocating yours too.
And also to installing a tank level indicator...this is the best one and is inexpensive and easy to install 'cuz the sender goes on the OUTside of the tank. Profile Tank Monitors
--Peggie
Your tank is prob'ly full and overflowing out the vent. A stanchion is a great place for a fuel or water tank vent 'cuz putting there with the openings on the aft side of the stanchion keeps seawater out of the fuel and water tanks. But it's the worst possible place for a holding tank vent for a couple of reasons...openings (slit or pinholes) are so small that they're easily clogged by waste overflowing from an overfull tank and/or just heeling hard enough...and they can't allow enough air exchange with gasses in the tank to create the aerobic environment needed to prevent odor out the vent. Catalina now runs most if not all waste tank thru-hulls to a vent fitting on the hull just below the stanchion and a lot of owners have moved theirs to new thru-hulls in the hull too. There have been several recent threads about this...I suggest you find 'em, read 'em and then strongly consider relocating yours too.
And also to installing a tank level indicator...this is the best one and is inexpensive and easy to install 'cuz the sender goes on the OUTside of the tank. Profile Tank Monitors
--Peggie
Thank you both for your feedback. I was thinking the same thing that the tank could be full, how could this be if only used twice this season and seacock closed after pumping empty at the end of last season? In fact after each use this season I have been also closing the seacock located in the head compartment. Where would the waste tank be filling up? I have read the recent threads about changing to a thru hull application, I would love to do this but don't feel great about doing it myself so this will be a down the road project for me in the offseason...
Most likley a blocked vent prevented more than a gallon or two from being pumped out at the end of last season. (One of the best reasons to install a tank level indicator). You said water is forced out the vent when you flush, but even a partially blocked vent can restrict the amount air a pumpout needs empty a tank. The waste being forced out the vent could have blocked it completely. Continuing to use the toilet without clearing it can pressurize the tank.
Use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works to scrape out the opening(s) in the stanchion. It may also be necessary to clean out the other end of the vent--that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank. Open the deck pumpout cap to relieve any pressure in the tank BEFORE removing any hoses!
Installing a new thru-hull is the only tricky part of relocating the vent to a thru-hull...and it's not that difficult. You should be able to find all the technical assistance you need among your dockmates. A good project for a weekend without any wind.
--Peggie
Use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works to scrape out the opening(s) in the stanchion. It may also be necessary to clean out the other end of the vent--that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank. Open the deck pumpout cap to relieve any pressure in the tank BEFORE removing any hoses!
Installing a new thru-hull is the only tricky part of relocating the vent to a thru-hull...and it's not that difficult. You should be able to find all the technical assistance you need among your dockmates. A good project for a weekend without any wind.
--Peggie
So I just took apart the vent tube from the tank to the stanchion and it wasn't clogged at all on either end. I'm thinking that the water spraying out of the stanchion when I pump the head is still due to a full tank or is this supposed to happen when flushing? Is there another way that this tank could have filled up so fast after pumping it clean at the end of last season and only using it twice this season? It is a groco HF toilet and I'm not sure when it was serviced last...any things to check? I also have a Y valve that goes to the macerator/discharge valve and the pump out...Keep in mind the discharge valve is always closed because we are in a fresh water lake...I look forward to anyone's input on further investigating how our tank could be filling up so quickly...
No, it's not supposed to happen when flushing. I'm wondering if your tank could be filling with flush water. Does water rise in the bowl at all--even if only a few inches--between uses of the toilet?
--Peggie
--Peggie
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Yes water fills back in the toilet in fact a bit too much for my liking so I have always shut the intake seacock immediately after flushing...
Aha--BINGO!! I know what the problem is! And installing a vented loop in the intake is the cure for the problem. I'm not surprised there isn't one, 'cuz although every other toilet mfr's installation instructions require an intake vented loop on all toilets installed even partially below waterline, Groco is the only toilet mfr whose installation instructions don't even mention it.
You'll see where it has to go in the drawing on p.3 of the Jabsco manual toilet owners manual Jabsco Manual Twist & Lock owners manual ...Figure 2 on p. 5 in the Raritan PHII owners manual PH II Owner’s Manual ...and Figure 5 on page 5 of the Raritan PH SuperFlush (newest version of the PHII) Raritan SuperFlush Owners Manual As you'll see, it's in the same place in all of 'em: between the pump and the bowl (if installed between the thru-hull and the pump it interferes with the pump's ability to prime). It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT MAX HEEL, not just when the boat's at rest..which puts it about 2-3' above the bowl on most sailboats. That requires replacing the short piece of hose that Groco used to connect the pump to the bowl with two lengths of 3/4" sanitation hose long enough to put the loop where it has to go (see attached photo for the most common location...the smaller loop is the intake...a discharge vented loop is only needed if you flush directly overboard when at sea beyond 3 miles).
I'm wondering if you know what the little lever on the side of pump at the top does..
That's the wet/dry control (aka "dry/flush" control on some toilets). It only allows flush water to come in when it's in the "wet" or "flush" position...blocks the flow of flush water when in the "dry" position. It can fail with age, but that's only one of the reasons that it's NOT a substitute for the vented loop because people can accidentally leave it in the wet mode, but it does prevent water from filling up the bowl while it's in the dry mode. If the the wet/dry lever doesn't block the flow of flush water when in the "dry" mode, the lever isn't moving the cam to block it.
A vented loop's primary function is to break a siphon... Priming a toilet pump can start a siphon. The loop offers the added protection of creating a "hill" in a line that's too high for rising water to climb over. It also provides a fail-safe that a properly working wet/dry valve can't: it keeps water out of the bowl if the wet/dry valve is left open...which can happen 'cuz humans are fallible. If they're lucky, people are aboard to notice that shoes are afloat in the cabin. (I remember crewing in a club race and needing the use head in the nick of time to close the wet/dry valve before the bowl overflowed...the people on the Tartan in the next slip weren't quite that lucky...they were manning mops when we came in...one of their kids had left the toilet in the wet mode.) But more than one boat has sunk its slip 'cuz tired people got a little careless when closing up the boat or a guest needed to use it "one last time..."
--Peggie
You'll see where it has to go in the drawing on p.3 of the Jabsco manual toilet owners manual Jabsco Manual Twist & Lock owners manual ...Figure 2 on p. 5 in the Raritan PHII owners manual PH II Owner’s Manual ...and Figure 5 on page 5 of the Raritan PH SuperFlush (newest version of the PHII) Raritan SuperFlush Owners Manual As you'll see, it's in the same place in all of 'em: between the pump and the bowl (if installed between the thru-hull and the pump it interferes with the pump's ability to prime). It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT MAX HEEL, not just when the boat's at rest..which puts it about 2-3' above the bowl on most sailboats. That requires replacing the short piece of hose that Groco used to connect the pump to the bowl with two lengths of 3/4" sanitation hose long enough to put the loop where it has to go (see attached photo for the most common location...the smaller loop is the intake...a discharge vented loop is only needed if you flush directly overboard when at sea beyond 3 miles).
I'm wondering if you know what the little lever on the side of pump at the top does..
That's the wet/dry control (aka "dry/flush" control on some toilets). It only allows flush water to come in when it's in the "wet" or "flush" position...blocks the flow of flush water when in the "dry" position. It can fail with age, but that's only one of the reasons that it's NOT a substitute for the vented loop because people can accidentally leave it in the wet mode, but it does prevent water from filling up the bowl while it's in the dry mode. If the the wet/dry lever doesn't block the flow of flush water when in the "dry" mode, the lever isn't moving the cam to block it.
A vented loop's primary function is to break a siphon... Priming a toilet pump can start a siphon. The loop offers the added protection of creating a "hill" in a line that's too high for rising water to climb over. It also provides a fail-safe that a properly working wet/dry valve can't: it keeps water out of the bowl if the wet/dry valve is left open...which can happen 'cuz humans are fallible. If they're lucky, people are aboard to notice that shoes are afloat in the cabin. (I remember crewing in a club race and needing the use head in the nick of time to close the wet/dry valve before the bowl overflowed...the people on the Tartan in the next slip weren't quite that lucky...they were manning mops when we came in...one of their kids had left the toilet in the wet mode.) But more than one boat has sunk its slip 'cuz tired people got a little careless when closing up the boat or a guest needed to use it "one last time..."
--Peggie
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Always glad to share what I've learned...and you'll find a lot more useful information in my book (see the link my signature). The title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't. If you want a hard copy, please buy it from sbo.com Amazon is the only source for the e-book (Kindle) version.
--Peggie
--Peggie
So I’m looking into vmcahanjnf our some toilet parts but first wanted to show u a few photos of my head setup to see if you had any other recommendations. I found my 1 page groco Manual and the first thing it said was DO NOT hook up any other lines to the water inflow besides the toilet. I noticed whoever previously installed also hooked up the sink drain tube to it as well. They also didn’t put a loop vent in the discharge line to the waste tank as you recommended. Another question I had is at the y valve with macerator...since I don’t pump out at all should I always leave that discharge valve closed and furthermore should I just remove the y valve and macerator completely and just have the discharge line go straight to the pump out? If it’s not effecting anything I’d prefer to leave it. But if can help overall performance I do not have any intention of the boat ever leaving the lake...see attached pics of my current setup, I look forward to any thoughts before taking on this project
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So I’m looking into vmcahanjnf our some toilet parts but first wanted to show u a few photos of my head setup to see if you had any other recommendations. I found my 1 page groco Manual and the first thing it said was DO NOT hook up any other lines to the water inflow besides the toilet. I noticed whoever previously installed also hooked up the sink drain tube to it as well. They also didn’t put a loop vent in the discharge line to the waste tank as you recommended. Another question I had is at the y valve with macerator...since I don’t pump out at all should I always leave that discharge valve closed and furthermore should I just remove the y valve and macerator completely and just have the discharge line go straight to the pump out? If it’s not effecting anything I’d prefer to leave it. But if can help overall performance I do not have any intention of the boat ever leaving the lake...see attached pics of my current setup, I look forward to any thoughts before taking on this project
Forgot to mention in the 1st picture u will see another thru Hull next to the water intake thru Hull with nothing attached. It has a black wire going into it as well that goes all the way back toward the cockpit. What is this for?
That's ok..in fact it's very good 'cuz it provides a safe source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the whole toilet system--inlet line, pump channel in the rim of the bowl AND the toilet discharge line. However, I have NO idea why he just added a line to the sink drain instead of just re-routing the intake hose from the thru-hull to the sink drain line, teed into it below the waterline as close to the seacock as possible. That leaves you with a thru-hull you can use for a washdown pump or something else that needs water. I need a to see a photo of the back of your toilet...'cuz it looks like he ran the intake line directly to the bowl instead of to the pump where it should have gone.
It's the INTAKE line that needs the vented loop. It's not needed in the discharge line if you're only flushing to the tank, only if the toilet flushes overboard.
Remove y-valve and the macerator. You no longer have any use for the y-valve. And when electrical equipment sits for more than a year, it starts to deteriorate...within a couple of years it becomes toast. Besides, removing 'em will definitely simplify the plumbing.
I'll be glad to help you sort out all the details one-on-one if you'd like to send me a PM.
--Peggie