Do you - Accidental Gybe?

Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Some folks who sail in the NE trades from Iberia to Caribbean, I’ve read, may do so under twin headsails, one poled out on each side. No mainsail at all. So, if it’s a long DDW ride, a few to several hundred, or more, miles, rigging in that manner would give you the two sails for power but not the “headache”of rigging and watching boom preventers, etc.
Indeed.

I have two almost identically sized jibs. For fun I've been tempted to pull them both up the dual track foil, and then roll them up. Use the outboard sail/sheet when on the wind. When DDW, pull one to each side and drop the main.

Rules frown on it, so not a racing technique.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I just have so many other ways to stay safe... and I'm lazy... and the preventer (in MY sailing life) always ends up being my second choice behind either furling the main, motoring, changing course, or something else.
:clap:
Clearly you have the knowledge :dancing:and that is why I posted the thread. Helping folks be safe and enjoy the experience is the goal.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I saw a Parasail Spinnaker at the Annapolis Boat Show. It also looked like an intriguing sail for down wind cruising. Too expensive as a test sail. Maybe I’ll find a way of experiencing one with out having to buy one. The salesman was from Europe. Suspect they may have a popularity there.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Indeed.

I have two almost identically sized jibs. For fun I've been tempted to pull them both up the dual track foil, and then roll them up. Use the outboard sail/sheet when on the wind. When DDW, pull one to each side and drop the main.

Rules frown on it, so not a racing technique.
Would you pole ‘em both out?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Would you pole ‘em both out?
I don't know... hadn't thought this all the way through! ;^)

Now that I'm thinking about it, ideally yes. but we carry only one (spin) pole. But the whole idea was more of a fun experiment then something we'd do in practice.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I like the @Allan12210 setup.

One thing to keep in mind, the danger/risk level of a gybe is a function of boom length. Less than 10 feet, and its usually a non-event. Between 10 and say 15, things get interesting. Above that and you've got a real event on your hands.

On the 367 (15.5 E) we rigged a belay device (similar to a Wichard Gyb'easy) as a boom break, but stopped using it. Seemed more trouble than it was worth for us. But maybe on a 40 footer...
 
Jan 22, 2008
763
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
The Hunter 340 has a 16 foot "E" and 421 square foot main, unintended jibes are always nerve wracking, especially when the wind is pushing 20 knots. I rig a preventer sometimes, but I'm more worried about the consequences of a broach than a jibe.
 

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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Bill. The worst of all worlds, a gybe which overpowers the boat into a broach as I’d slides off a wave.

Ideas to avoid a broach
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
I don't even like to think about my last crash jibe, and it was over 5 years ago. Out in the Gulf of Maine with my daughter for crew, sun down and we've been running dead down wind under deeply reefed main alone for 10 hours. We've gone 80 nautical miles in those 10 hours thanks to a North wind that started at 10 to 15 and was now steady mid 30's with gusts nearing 40 knots.

We had just surfed down one of the big rollers that were now all around us and our SOG topped 14 knots down the wave.

Then BANG! The preventer was over powered, the 18' spruce boom raised - the tiny main snapped over and the end of the boom slammed the back stay.

The rig held, thankfully. My daughter and I went about heaving to for a few hours rest. We brought the bow into the wind and waves, sheeted the deeply reefed main to the leeward end of the traveler, and crashed for a few hours of much needed sleep.

How I got us in this pickle was a series of moves that (I thought) I made carefully as the sail from Penobscot Bay to Cape Cod to handle the conditions.

One of my bigger mistakes was anticipating needing to heave to, in which I would need the deeply reefed main to do if the sea state became boisterous (which it more than did with winds way beyond 24 hour NOAA forecast).

I don't dwell on the crash jibe too much because I will NEVER do that again. :)
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
the crash jibe
You do it and you remember it.
Thanks for the story Tom. Better to learn a lesson from other sailor’s history then to experience it and have things go terribly wrong. If you prepare for the possibility, then your chances of a recovery after the event goes way up.
 
Aug 13, 2012
533
Catalina 270 Ottawa
An interesting report is available from Maritime NZ (https://www.sail-world.com/news/208083/Report-findings-on-Platino-double-death). It describes consequences of an unintended gybe (under an autopilot that failed). Platino was a 60ft boat, so the forces were substantial.

In my view, two points are worth mentioning:
- an autopilot is never as good as a decent helmsperson
- the forces on the preventer in time of a crash gybe are much higher than you think.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
The report is indeed very interesting. As in many, if not in all, such disasters a combination of actions and failures produced this tragic outcome. The autopilot apparently failed b/c it had leaked hydraulic fluid sufficient to interfere with its function. This was not noticed possibly b/c it was not routinely being inspected. Several hours to minutes prior to complete failure the autopilot was evidently having some difficulty holding course. This may not have been known to the crew due the subtleness of it. However, there was NO WATCH posted at the helm. This alone is a bizarre failure of good skippering, IMHO.

The preventer failed in part due to the crew’s modification of the rigging as installed w/o due recognition of their insertion of a “weak link.” Also, due in part that a certain critical pad eye, mistakenly undersized, had been installed during a refit. Rigging the preventer had not been practiced b/f leaving port. It was an ad hoc modification done at the time of rigging it at sea. Apparently, the skipper did not supervise and could not describe to interviewers how it had been modified.

It evidently took a couple of slams of the boom (i.e., 2 or 3 uncontrolled jibes across the cockpit) b/f the traveler failed from shock loading (i.e., broke free of its track). Up until then it might have been possible to get control of the yacht even in the high wind and confused seas by disengaging the autopilot, heading the yacht up or perhaps by completing a jibe, bringing the yacht hove-to (?), then sheeting in the boom, etc. But—-NO WATCH at the helm at the onset!!

Once the traveler broke up it was really goodbye Charlie. The boom kept jibeing uncontrollably, slamming into the swept-back spreaders until the rig came down, etc. Tragically, two crew members where killed. One was knocked off, no life jacket on, and not recovered. The other was hit in the head by the traveler apparatus attached to the end of the boom which acted as “wreaking ball” according to crew accounts, and died of the injury.

A very thorough report which highlights how simple “oversights” and even common, though not entirely sound, practices can add up to BIG problems. Remember, a gigantic rogue wave, as often called, is really a bunch of smaller waves whose amplitudes coincide, additively, for some few minutes.
 
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Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I try to avoid DDW sailing, which is easy to do when just daysailing with no specific destination. If we must go DDW I motor.
The two or three accidental gybes I experienced on my O'day 25 were due to inexperienced helmsmen and luckily caused no damage and not really violent or scary.

Yesterday we experienced our first accidental gybe on our C30. Much scarier on the larger boat.
We had been on a broad reach up the bay but the wind shifted slowly was shifting to aft so we started tacking back down the bay. As the wind built I reefed the main and genoa. The wind increased further and when I went to furl the genoa again I found the line had over wrapped on the drum and the drum had turned. I let out the main, put on the auto pilot and went forward to turn the drum back but couldn't fixed the over wrap. As I was returning to the cockpit I felt the boat turn starting to turn down wind. I laid flat on the cabin top as the boom swung over my head. If I had not laid flat when I did the boom would probably have swept me off the deck.

The mistake I made was letting out the main too much, which de powered the boat. As the boat slowed the AP lost steerage.

As I scrambled in the cockpit my wife, who was a passenger, commented "That was exciting, can we not do that again".
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
Yes we were and no accidental or on purpose gybes today. Nice easy sailing!