Confused about legal whisker pole

Jul 5, 2005
217
Beneteau 361 Sandusky Harbor Marina
Hi all, it seems I'm getting conflicting info regarding what size whisker pole is legal vs. illegal. Some sources say it can't be longer than the J dimension on the boat, in my case, about 14 feet. But them I'm getting some sources that say the whisker pole should be as long as the foot of the sail; in my case, the genoa's foot is 24 feet long. Which is it? If the whisker pole should really only be 14 feet long, but the genoa foot is 24 feet long, is such a short (14 feet) whisker pole effective?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
There is nothing in the RRS that describes limits on the length of poles. Therefore, you'll need to consult your class or (probably) your PHRF rating rules. While spin poles are normally limited to 'J' before penalty, whisker pole rules tend to be more varied. You'll need to look it up.
 
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Ted

.
Jan 26, 2005
1,254
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
In previous years, our club limited the length of the whisker pole to the "J" dimension of the boat. This season they are giving a 6-second credit if you use a spinnaker or whisker pole fixed at the "J" dimension. Poles longer than that don't receive any rating adjustment. Check with your local handicapper to see how they handle it.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
It seems like it depends on the race series. The race series we are doing this summer is non-spinnaker, and the rules call for a limit on the whisker pole length that you can use for the genoa limited to J dimension. Adjustable poles have to be marked at the J dimension to confirm compliance with the rule. Whisker poles typically can be adjusted to the foot dimension, so I assume there is a reason for limiting the whisker pole length used during the race. I can't say that I know what the reason is. I'm guessing that most folks carry just one pole and normally choose to carry a spinnaker pole instead of a whisker pole (or both), so the club has the rule for racing so that folks don't feel obligated to buy another pole. Maybe times have changed and more folks now carry a whisker pole rather than a spinnaker pole.
I bought a Selden pole that can be used both ways. The inboard setting is just under the J-dimension of my boat. It has 2 settings that are a close enough match to the foot dimensions of my genoas. I'll have to mark my pole at the J-dimension.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
It seems like it depends on the race series. The race series we are doing this summer is non-spinnaker, and the rules call for a limit on the whisker pole length that you can use for the genoa limited to J dimension. Adjustable poles have to be marked at the J dimension to confirm compliance with the rule. Whisker poles typically can be adjusted to the foot dimension, so I assume there is a reason for limiting the whisker pole length used during the race. I can't say that I know what the reason is. I'm guessing that most folks carry just one pole and normally choose to carry a spinnaker pole instead of a whisker pole (or both), so the club has the rule for racing so that folks don't feel obligated to buy another pole. Maybe times have changed and more folks now carry a whisker pole rather than a spinnaker pole.
I bought a Seldon pole that can be used both ways. The inboard setting is just under the J-dimension of my boat. It has 2 settings that are a close enough match to the foot dimensions of my genoas. I'll have to mark my pole at the J-dimension.
Longer poles can create more 'projection' and therefor more speed potential. That's why there are length limits, because they can create a rating based on a length relative to your rated head sail size. If your pole can extend longer than rated length, you are required to mark it so you (and your competition) can see you do not exceed that length.

Race boat rarely carry both a spinnaker and whisker pole. A boat that is rated to fly a spinnaker will always do so when possible, and never pole out a headsail. Its never slower and almost always faster.

While there are no some pole that are reputed to be able to do dual duty, a spin pole for any given length has to be much stronger than the same-size whisker pole as the loads are much greater.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
While there are no some pole that are reputed to be able to do dual duty, a spin pole for any given length has to be much stronger than the same-size whisker pole as the loads are much greater.
The Selden pole that I bought is clearly advertised as a dual-purpose pole. That said, I understand that it is a compromise. It is a very heavy pole that has 2 robust aluminum tubes extendable with 4 settings. The inner 2 settings are for spinnaker use and the outer 2 settings are for whisker pole use.

Because the pole is made for use as a spinnaker pole, the aluminum tubes are much thicker than a typical extendable whisker pole. I realize that it is a compromise that most folks probably wouldn't buy. A normal, extendable whisker pole would be much lighter weight with thinner tubes. A normal spinnaker pole would be just one size and a single aluminum tube.
Still, they are on the market so some people (like me) must be buying them!
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The Seldon pole that I bought is clearly advertised as a dual-purpose pole. That said, I understand that it is a compromise. It is a very heavy pole that has 2 robust aluminum tubes extendable with 4 settings. The inner 2 settings are for spinnaker use and the outer 2 settings are for whisker pole use.

Because the pole is made for use as a spinnaker pole, the aluminum tubes are much thicker than a typical extendable whisker pole. I realize that it is a compromise that most folks probably wouldn't buy. A normal, extendable whisker pole would be much lighter weight with thinner tubes. A normal spinnaker pole would be just one size and a single aluminum tube.
Still, they are on the market so some people (like me) must be buying them!
That was the one I was talking about. Its probably a good deal for people that casually or only occasionally fly spinnaker. The extra tubing makes it much heavier (matters to the foredecker!) than a regular spin pole, and the complexity of the sizing hardware is of course vulnerable to failure. But if you only want one and usually use a whisker pole, why not??
 
Jul 5, 2005
217
Beneteau 361 Sandusky Harbor Marina
Thanks again everyone! I talked with the race committee representative, and he told me for racing, the limit is the J length of the boat. :) That makes it easy. I know one I can borrow for my upcoming charity race.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Now we know why Scott has Ward on board....Heavy Pole Lifter.... Could it be a new Olympic sport?
I thought that was what the topping lift was for! :confused: We have to do 2 things before we use it … mark it for legal length, and … practice before we mess it up on a race course. Yesterday, we had a triangle course, so no reason to go wing-on-wing.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,993
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
practice before we mess it up on a race course
Practice? you don't need no stinking practice... It is out there where it is going to happen... Captain Ron learned that from driving the Saratoga.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Practice? you don't need no stinking practice... It is out there where it is going to happen... Captain Ron learned that from driving the Saratoga.
Just depends if you want to do well.
 
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May 17, 2004
5,031
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
So, if whisker pole length is generally limited to J why does Forespar recommend poles that are so much longer? I'm looking to get a whisker pole for my 37' boat with a J of 14' 11". Strictly by length it seems like I should be fine with their 7-15' twist lock, or maybe their 10-18' Line Control. But by their sizing chart and product descriptions I need their much pricier and heavier 13-24' line control. Do I really need to carry around 9' of pole that I'm never going to use, at least not in a race?
 
May 23, 2016
217
O'Day 1984 23 Island Park, NY
Some of the reason is to have a pole thick enough to be strong enough for the forces... And often the j limit isn't absolute, there's just a penalty if it's longer... And some think the penalty is worth the increase in performance... And some are cruisers who just don't care
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
So, if whisker pole length is generally limited to J why does Forespar recommend poles that are so much longer? I'm looking to get a whisker pole for my 37' boat with a J of 14' 11". Strictly by length it seems like I should be fine with their 7-15' twist lock, or maybe their 10-18' Line Control. But by their sizing chart and product descriptions I need their much pricier and heavier 13-24' line control. Do I really need to carry around 9' of pole that I'm never going to use, at least not in a race?
That ‘j’ limit is placed by RACING rules, by some clubs. With larger genoas a longer-than-J pole is desirable.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
So, if whisker pole length is generally limited to J why does Forespar recommend poles that are so much longer? I'm looking to get a whisker pole for my 37' boat with a J of 14' 11". Strictly by length it seems like I should be fine with their 7-15' twist lock, or maybe their 10-18' Line Control. But by their sizing chart and product descriptions I need their much pricier and heavier 13-24' line control. Do I really need to carry around 9' of pole that I'm never going to use, at least not in a race?
The Forespar recommended length is based purely on performance, so I would use that as a basis for purchasing the pole. It seems to me that the J-dimension length is just a race rule adopted principally by non-spin clubs. Ours is that way. It's probably just a rule to keep recreational racers from getting carried away with their equipment purchases. That way, people can just use their spin pole, if they have one, instead of having to purchase a whisker pole, too, and not feel like they are being penalized for not spending money. I'm guessing that when the rule was originally adopted, it may have been more common for recreational sailors to carry a spin pole. Our rules, like many other clubs, I'm sure, stipulate that you can use an extendable whisker pole except that you have to mark it at the J-dimension if you are going to use it.

We tried using ours yesterday … it didn't go well and we fell behind. :(
 
May 17, 2004
5,031
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Makes sense that they would recommend a size based on the cruising requirement, not just the racing rule. I guess my question (which is probably better aimed at Forespar) is whether the 7-15' pole would be strong enough for my boat, or is that one only designed to be strong enough for a boat with a J of like 10'?

(Yeah, I probably know the answer, but I'm hoping to be surprised to find that I don't need to spend the extra money.)

We tried using ours yesterday … it didn't go well and we fell behind. :(
:wahwah::wahwah: Sorry to hear that.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Makes sense that they would recommend a size based on the cruising requirement, not just the racing rule. I guess my question (which is probably better aimed at Forespar) is whether the 7-15' pole would be strong enough for my boat, or is that one only designed to be strong enough for a boat with a J of like 10'?

(Yeah, I probably know the answer, but I'm hoping to be surprised to find that I don't need to spend the extra money.)


:wahwah::wahwah: Sorry to hear that.
Remember that unlike a spinnaker pole, a whisker pole is not held in compression and is under much less load.