Interesting confrontation!
- Thread starter Scott T-Bird
- Start date
Isn’t rattling a sword the exact opposite of giving fire and taking lives? It implies a warning, not an attack with resulting casualties. While taking lives is not ethical, I certainly hope we enter conflict and risk the lives of our men and women with a high standard of ethics and justification, in the protection of others and ourselves, only being the aggressor in order to reduce casualties. I think we all understand that no one “wins.”
What the Russians did in this instance was planned in detail well in advance. The Russians orchestrate carefully with calculation in order to impact our media in order to sway public opinion in order to weaken our president and our government. They had a reason for this. It was intended. When it comes to 9600 ton ships... don’t think their movements are not planned.
The fact that this happened in the Philippine Sea, an area the Chinese very much want control over, suggests the Russians are pestering us as a favor to the Chinese. The message is, “quit operating here, and you won’t have to face this harassment.”
What the Russians did in this instance was planned in detail well in advance. The Russians orchestrate carefully with calculation in order to impact our media in order to sway public opinion in order to weaken our president and our government. They had a reason for this. It was intended. When it comes to 9600 ton ships... don’t think their movements are not planned.
The fact that this happened in the Philippine Sea, an area the Chinese very much want control over, suggests the Russians are pestering us as a favor to the Chinese. The message is, “quit operating here, and you won’t have to face this harassment.”
Something else to consider. I believe it still to be true that the Soviets (now Russians) operated with very, very little to absolutely zero autonomy whereas our officers are given a great deal of latitude in operation of their vessels, aircraft and crews.
@capta, I don't see where I indicated any offense to anything. I just arm chair quarter backed the situation. I'm home working on my sailboat, because I can, because my brave, under payed, over supplied with weapons, Navy is out there making sure I can. My first wish is for most people to die from natural causes and not war, there are some exceptions of course. I don't understand to which alternate strategy you refer.
Actually the Russians wanted the US sailors to get rattled and fire the first shot. This has been going on long before instant news and it will continue. Flight ops require set course and reduce speed, and contray to movie magic is very dangerous and difficult on a small boy, the Russians know this too.
I thought after the Cole that the Navy had an exclusion zone around their ships inside of which it is open season? I once saw a destroyer blasting five times on the horn when a power boat was heading full speed at their bow, when the boat didn't slow the destroyer manned a fifty caliber on the bow ready to start shooting. Why accept this affront to their safe space?
Interesting, seems to only apply to US territorial waters. http://americanboating.org/naval_protection_zones.asp
There is a big difference between firing on a small boat of unknown affiliation and firing on a large naval warship of a known adversary. The consequences of firing on the Russian warship would not be inconsequential. We wouldn't have to worry about Russia meddling in our elections because none of us would be here.
This confrontation was about showing strength, and surveillance. What better way to find out about the maneuverability of a US Navy ship than to put it into a tight situation to see how the skipper handles the boat.
In the end, this is nothing more than 2 school yard bullies sizing each other up. Neither wants to fight, both want to claim victory blaming the other and both want the school principal resolve the issue.
They should have some paint ball shells with pink paint they can shoot at them. Then plaster the pictures all over the net.
Yeah, I had the thought of paintball, but the pink, now that idea was all yours. And a good one.
That was us with our rented Cat last Tuesday. Two boats on the water. US and CANADIAN flagged vessels. Race on “For God and Country”.
Our SunSail Cat against their Moorings Monohull.
We slipped in behind them then ran on a beam reach to windward. Once we blanketed them it was all over but the beers we rewarded the the crew.
So true. Yesterday we were exploring the Mayan Temple ruins near the towns of San Ignacio in western Belize. All of a sudden a couple of guys dressed in fatigues come out of the Jungle with M16 short barrels slung from their shoulders.
Our guide said they had come from a walk along the Guatemala border some 1/4 mile away. Said he sees them all the time since Guatemala decided they want the southern states of Belize. Few years back Guatemala massed a few battle tanks on the border. England (Belize was a British colonial protectorate before they became independent) sent a pair of Harrier jets that buzzed the Guatemala capital. Game over.
Played out all over the world.
In that case, perhaps @capta 's approach is better … simply refuse to engage early - don't give them any info. But, OTOH, I don't think weakness is an option. In my opinion, the world is a safer place all around when America is THE unabashed superpower. Leaving a void is more dangerous. Perhaps the world order will change in my lifetime, I hope not. It will be another generation's problem when it does. I'm in complete agreement with @Rick486, this was Russian antagonism and our guys did fine.
How is it a weakness to refuse to play childish games with a billion dollar+ machine and hundreds of lives? We know their capability and they know ours down to the tiniest bit of info. What happened to taking the higher road? Must we get down in the muck to prove something we don't need to prove?
"In my opinion, the world is a safer place all around when America is THE unabashed superpower."
Where does this come from? We haven't won a war since WWII, and have pretty much disgraced ourselves in every one since. Russia and China have been building up their military might at a rate that makes our improvements look paltry, but no matter what, there's still enough nuclear firepower out there to eradicate every living thing (except cockroaches) on this planet a dozen or more times over.
Superpower? We aren't even a cohesive union anymore.
@capta , let's not go down the political road lest it runs up a red flag for the moderators! I certainly don't mind differing opinions and I hope to state mine without trampling on others. Responding directly to my opinions, or me to yours, is more like an argument that will land this discussion in purgatory!
I thought that the incident provided an interesting mix of Colregs and heavyweight jousting. Of course politics enters into everything eventually. I thought it was interesting how the Russians appeared (to me anyway) to choose a navigational course where their aggression could almost be confused by an interpretation of the rules on the high seas. Like I said, I think our guys acquitted themselves just right. BTW, do you think there are better examples of cohesive politics in the countries around the world today? I'd be interested to know who?
I thought that the incident provided an interesting mix of Colregs and heavyweight jousting. Of course politics enters into everything eventually. I thought it was interesting how the Russians appeared (to me anyway) to choose a navigational course where their aggression could almost be confused by an interpretation of the rules on the high seas. Like I said, I think our guys acquitted themselves just right. BTW, do you think there are better examples of cohesive politics in the countries around the world today? I'd be interested to know who?
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I definitely prefer the books he wrote before he died. The dozen or two he has written while he was dead were not nearly as good as the ones he wrote when he was alive.
