But in Maritime law it's rarely the case that one side is right and the other wrong. In most cases it's 90/10, 60/40, etc. Had there been a collision here I'm sure it would've been on that spectrum, not 100/0.
Interesting confrontation!
- Thread starter Scott T-Bird
- Start date
Colregs is not helpful here in any real sense, it is about politics, intimidation, and dominance.
@Davidasailor26 seems to agree that the Russian ship was overtaking. Based on the angle of the wake, I would agree. @uncledom indicates American ship is limited in ability to maneuver. I also agree, but this may be the weaker argument.
I think that the Russian ship was clearly the aggressor and the American ship had no fault. Both eventually turned away from collision so avoidance is moot.
I think the Russia ship purposely held a course that would make it questionable whether they were give way or stand on to intentionally cause a confrontation. They seem to blame the American ship simply because they were approaching on the Starboard side. It's an obvious act of aggression on the part of Russians. That's my take.
I think that the Russian ship was clearly the aggressor and the American ship had no fault. Both eventually turned away from collision so avoidance is moot.
I think the Russia ship purposely held a course that would make it questionable whether they were give way or stand on to intentionally cause a confrontation. They seem to blame the American ship simply because they were approaching on the Starboard side. It's an obvious act of aggression on the part of Russians. That's my take.
Fair point. What I think is most interesting is the course the Russian ship used to approach the American ship. It seemed to me that it deliberately was in a zone that was questionable.
For instance, the Russian ship didn't choose a course that had them approach the American ship on the port beam. I think the course the Russian ship was on was not by chance.
Also, my comment about right and wrong was not based on Colregs. It is about which one is the aggressor, which one is not.
I think the Russian ship was using Colregs to muddle the issue. It was an attempt to use Colregs to disguise their aggression. They tried to create a situation where they could blame the American ship for aggression. What about that?
Just the opposite, Brian. I was on port tack heading north, he was on starboard tack coming south. Crossing.
I raced on The Bay for many years.
If not racing, I was cruising and never got into that carp.
Not the first time.
A long and boring video, but unmistakable for those engaged in fault-finding.
A long and boring video, but unmistakable for those engaged in fault-finding.
I has nothing to do with seamanship. They are not out there to practice who follows COLREGS best. It's all about intelligence gathering. Russians want to see how US ships react when confronted. Not to mention the electronic intelligence gathering. Goes both ways too.
It would also stop if we went full blown crazy and released everything we had from ship to ship which is not an option many of US have on a daily basis. Best I can find out this is a Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser and is fully capable of taking out that Russian ship if we struck first. This is childish bravado and it was handled the only way it could be, stand on as long as possible and see if anyone needs a paint job. Because the only other alternative is a real incident. Just MHO.
Some skippers, once the Russian was within 3 miles on an intercept heading, would sound GQ, collision alarm, cease helo ops, and do whatever the ROE calls for. And be sure this is covered in the ROE. As has been said above, this had nothing to do with with ColRegs. And our guys did fine. MHO.
It is called probing. They probe to stimulate a reaction, read the sigint and actions that get generated, and catalog it. It tells them what our ship’s orders are and what is protocol in peacetime. If they can embarrass us in the meantime, that is just butter on the biscuit, a plus. They will know everything about the officers on that ship. They will write a report about how the crew reacted at each step. This is not a joyride. The better the information gathered, the better they can brief their Captains for wartime.
Why is the thought of avoiding any confrontation at all so offensive to you?
Do you think incidents like this have any effect at all for the best? They are pointless, as you said, the US ship could probably have obliterated the Soviet, oops, Putin's toy, or even conversely, who cares?
It's not only the lives of these children playing 'who's got the biggest pair", but the lives of everyone on earth if things get out of control.
We've tried rattling swords for the entire life of this country and a whole lot of dead young Americans lying in unmarked graves around the world was the result.
Don't you think it is time for an alternative strategy?
Somewhere in the world this is probably a daily occurrence, at the very least a weekly one. It is a bit of a conundrum you want the guys (that's the non gender "guys" that includes gals) out there confident and aggressive when the stuff hits the fan but when they are and there is an incident or someone draws a penis in the sky its "Off with their heads". I'd have given them a medal or at leas bought them a beer. Bet no one was afraid the guys landing on Normandy beaches were too cocky.
It is not limited to ships at sea it happens in the air as well. It is also not limited to adversarial nations if we see a friendly country's jet we pounce. US Navy, Marine, Army or whatever plane out there we would jump it too and play a bit of tag.
Everything up there that is not a wingman is a target. Sometimes not even the wingman is safe.
It is not limited to ships at sea it happens in the air as well. It is also not limited to adversarial nations if we see a friendly country's jet we pounce. US Navy, Marine, Army or whatever plane out there we would jump it too and play a bit of tag.
Everything up there that is not a wingman is a target. Sometimes not even the wingman is safe.
From my experience in the 1980's, the Russians have vodka on their ships, the wake seems to show the aggressor was the Russians.