Spreader tightness

rpludwig · Jun 2, 2019

no spreader expert here, but I'd start by getting rid of all that black tape, see what's under and how good the attachments are & address as necessary. One thing we certainly don't need is spreader failures!

Gene Neill · Jun 2, 2019

Mine wobble all over the place. Probably 3/4" play horizontally, 1 1/4" vertically, something like that. But I agree with rpludwig: unwrap, inspect, re-wrap if necessary (to protect sails and lines from sharp things like cotter pins, etc).

Gene Neill · Jun 2, 2019

It might be "rigging tape", probably the best thing for the job: https://www.sailrite.com/Rigging-Tape-White-1-x-15-Roll

Ron20324 · Jun 2, 2019

ScubaGuy2 said:
They seem to be bolted or riveted in and then wrapped in heavy black tape. !

Looks like rubber stretch tape. "Rubba-Weld?

Leeward Rail · Jun 2, 2019

ScubaGuy2 said:
I wonder if it is Delrin dielectric insulator

If it is, then it was installed wrong.
You would need to wrap the tube end to create an electrical barrier between the tube and the mast fitting.

I suspect it may simply be some tape the previous owner had lying around. Then the next person simply wrapped riggin tape over it.

Keep in mind that many C22's are sold to beginners etc. who are on a cheap budget.
Any old weatherproof tape that sticks well, would help protect things from being damaged by the cotter pins.
I've seen electrical tape used on turnbuckles, and the owners simply replace it as needed.
Not great looking, (nor my preference) but if it works....

Hardhead · Jun 3, 2019

This might be what you were thinking of. Mine are held in with a cotter pin, but some other designs mention this-
https://www.catalinadirect.com/lashing-the-upper-shrouds-to-the-spreader-tips/

Hardhead · Jun 4, 2019

I think a certain amount of play is inevitable, due to the spreader design, and as long as the attachment is solid, I would not worry about what little is left. I took my spreaders apart last summer, and they had been attached since 1987. There was no dissimilar metal corrosion that I could tell - but the boat had been in freshwater its whole life up until then. I would not worry too much about that either-

Gene Neill · Jun 4, 2019

My guess is, some play is desirable. The mast is flexible, the rigging is flexible, the boat itself is flexible ... everything moves around. Especially the upper shroud, when you stagger into it and grab it for dear life on occasion. So it seems logical that the spreaders would not be locked immovably into one fixed position. Sounds like a good way to break something.

Just my guess though, nothing more ...

Minnesail · Jun 5, 2019

I helped someone with a boat last year that had hinged spreaders. I can't remember what the make was, but they were designed to move.

Jacktar · Jun 5, 2019

Just make sure the shroud (wire) can move freely up and down in spreader notch it helps to maintain the tension needed to properly provide the lateral support to the mast on opposite tacks. Seizing is just wrapping wire around the wire and notch to keep it in the notch but allow it to move up and down as needed during static tuning and during dynamic tuning when changing tacks.

Will Gilmore · Jun 6, 2019

Jacktar said:
Just make sure the shroud (wire) can move freely up and down in spreader notch

I wouldn't do that. It makes sense to allow the stay to move freely for tensioning, as jacktar wrote, except it doesn't often work like that. Ideally, the angles between the spreader and the upper shrouds should be equal above and below the spreader (in the picture, angles 'A' and 'B' should be the same).

Once you put tension on the shrouds, the free movement is restricted and further tensioning can start to pull the spreader downward. It wouldn't be much on a small boat but could change the forces on the spreaders enough to cause a dent in the mast at the lower edge of the spreader base. But the reason you don't want free movement is because your spreaders are a little loose, mine are hinged fore and aft and are loose on their hinge pin, and boat movement under sail could cause the angles to become uneven. This would put more force down or up, depending on which direction the spreaders moved. The tension on the upper spreaders would then try to collapse the spreaders against the mast. If the spreaders are weak or the base connection compromised, the result would be a broken spreader and complete failure of the spreader and your rig. By seizing the shrouds to the right place on the shrouds you insure that the angle doesn't change and a weakened spreader will only be put into compression against the mast, never torsion. Also, on a trailersailer you don't want that positioning to move everytime you drop the mast. That would be why your spreaders have more play in them than you would think you want. Before tensioning the shrouds, the spreaders will be held slightly high then come down as you shorten them at the turnbuckles.

-Will (Dragonfly)

ShotgunSlim · Jun 6, 2019

Thanks to all the contributors on this thread, the timing couldn't have been better as I have 2 new upper shrouds to go on "Kellie Marie" and I was going to start searching for answers on proper shroud seizing at the spreader ends. I have one side lashed with a a literal ball of wire and one side looking a little cleaner and neater. I guess I'll follow the above advice and seize both the same way at hopefully the same tension and try to fab some leather spreader boots following the pattern from the Stingy Sailor.

Gene Neill · Jun 6, 2019

My shrouds will slide through the boot when the rig is down, with a moderate amount of friction. They were always thus, and right or wrong, I never gave any thought to positioning them more permanently. It seems to work. Shrug ...?

One thing is for sure: I would never allow my leeward shrouds to be slack enough to fall out of that notch. Never never never!

I highly recommend a Loos gauge for new trailer sailors. I usually tune the rig "by ear" these days (literally, by flicking the shrouds and listing to the sound) but the gauge helped me learn what to listen for. I still use it occasionally, at the start of an extended cruise or when the weather forecast looks ominous and I really want to be sure. I use 30 for uppers, 28 for lowers, plus or minus.

Sorry for the drift.

rpludwig · Jun 6, 2019

+1 on Loos Gauge....have one, the newer 1, think it is a PT1 model or something, have loaned it out to a slip mate, but not used yet...note, if you have an A model the settings are different for a PT1, LRail has a great thead on it with links, do a search, and there's a good youtube thread on the simple use of one....will be doing mine soon and report back....last outing, my leeward shrouds were quite slack, believe all are too loose...

Spreader tightness

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