buying 4x Catalina 22 & 1x Catalina 27 for 83'000, what is your opinion?

Jun 4, 2019
4
Catalina Catalina 22 NY dok
Hi everyone
I am a totally newby when it comes to how much a boat is worth and what means good or bad condition of a boat. However I am looking into a business opportunity (sailing school) whereby I would by 5 catalinas first generation hull (is first generation positive?). They ask 83'000 US for the 5 boats, new sails, outboard engines, trailer.

Here are some infos, below I also post the inventory list of what is in the price included. Unfortunately I don't know the year of the boat...
however I read that a good condition Catalina 22 is worth around 8'000 US. 83'000 for the 5 boats seems incredibly lots. What is your first reaction on this? Your inputs are much appreciated! Thank you so much!

Attached is the registrations for 4 Catalina 22's, 1 Catalina 27, and the newly purchased dinghy. The boats are in the water 5 months of every year.
Outboard Engines:
3x 2015 6hp Sailpro 20" long shaft Tohatsu Outboard Motor w/external 3 gallon tank
1x 2016 6hp Sailpro 20" long shaft Tohatsu Outboard Motor w/external 3 gallon tank
1x 2017 6hp 15" short shaft Tohatsu Outboard Motor w/internal tank
1x 2019 15hp 15" short shaft Tohatsu Outboard Motor w/external tank and electric start
New sails purchased this spring:
4 Peak Catalina 22 Coastal Cruising 100% Furling Jibs
2 Peak Catalina 22 Coastal Cruising Mainsails
1 Peak Catalina 27 Tall rig Coastal Cruising Mainsail
1 Peak Catalina 27 Tall rig Coastal Cruising 100% Furling Jib



Catalina 22’s First Generation Hulls (specific boat improvements and equipment
listed below)
- Fin Keel (Big Red) $10,000
- Swing Keel (Island Time) $10,000
- Fin Keel (Ole Blue) $10,000
- Swing Keel (Green Machine) $10,000
- Catalina 27 Tall Rig (Tristan, details below) $20,000
- 10ft Inflatable Dinghy $5,000
- Dinghy in bag $300

-Boat Improvements and equipment (all 4 Catalina 22’s)
-New Running Rigging. All halyards, sheets, and control lines.
-New Standing Rigging.
-CDI Roller Furlers
-Catalina Direct 4 stroke outboard brackets
-Rudder Craft Performance Rudders, HDP Heavy Duty
-Close Celled Foam Cockpit Cushions
-Cam Cleats
-New easy maintenance interiors w/cockpit tables
-Anchors w/ coated chain and 3 strand rode
-4 dock lines for each boat
-Polyform A2 fenders w/fender covers
-4 Igloo Coolers
-25 Adult & 35 child Type 1 Lifejackets
-16 Adult West Marine Lifevests
-12 Infant/Child/Youth Lifevests
-All necessary safety equipment for OUPV Charters.

- Sail Inventory (all sails 0-3 seasons of use) Total: $11,545
- 4 Peak Sail 135% Rollar Furling Genoa’s
- 4 Peak Sail Main’s w/Single Reef Point & Cunningham
- 1 Masthead 135% Genoa (back up sail)
- 1 Masthead Main Sail w/Single Reef Point (back up sail)
- 1 FX Main Sail (back up sail)
- 1 FX 135% Roller Furling Genoa (back up sail)
- 5 Spinnakers
- 4 Dousing Socks
- Sail Bags & Sail Ties for all sails
- 4 Peak 100% Furling Jibs
- 2 Peak Mainsails w/two reef points

Catalina 27 Tall Rig, Fin Keel, Bow Sprit w/Diesel Inboard (Tristan, included in boat
category)
- Main, Jib, Genoa & Spinnaker in Fair/Good Condition
- Roller Furling
- Lazy Jacks
- Wheel Steering & Autohelm
- Coach Roof Traveler & Mid Boom Sheeting
- Bimini
- 2 Batteries with Selector Switch
- Marine Head
- Fresh Water System with Galley Sink & Head Sink
- Cockpit Cushions

Outboard Engines Total: $7,400
- (3) 2015 & (1) 2016 Tohatsu Four Stroke 6hp Long Shaft w/High Thrust Props (sail
pro), 3 gallon external tanks
- (1) 2017 Tohatsu Four Stroke 6hp Short Shaft w/Internal & External tank

Trailers Total: $11,500
- Swing Keel Boat Trailer $2,000
- Swing Keel Boat Trailer $2,000
- Fin Keel Boat Trailer $2,500
- Fin Keel Boat Trailer $2,500
- Utility 4X8 Flat Trailer $500
- Enclosed 6X10 Cargo Trailer (custom shelving & bins) $2,000
 
Last edited:
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Hi everyone
I am a totally newby when it comes to how much a boat is worth and what means good or bad condition of a boat. However I am looking into a business opportunity (taking over a sailing school, yes it seems crazy but leave that fact beside..) whereby I would by 5 catalinas first generation hull (is first generation positive?). They ask 83'000 US for the 5 boats, new sails, outboard engines, trailer.
Ummm you want to take over a Sailing school without any knowledge of the boats, their condition, or value? This seems like a bad idea. While the values you provide for the boats are very high the overall value will be based on the business you are buying. Dock space, condition of the boats, customers, etc... I suggest you do some reading about Catalinas online before making such a decision. The Catalina 22 is the single most available Trailer sailor in the world (bamroo 22 overseas) with well over 5000 hulls built so there good boats and many sailing clubs use them. However if you are unsure of what your getting into with this business I would error on the side of caution and find someone in person that can walk you through this process.
 
  • Like
Likes: Alansails
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I don’t think we have enough info to help. If all you were buying are the boats then that is way too much. If you are buying a well established business with a long history of profitability, a name brand, location and a well established staff of employees then maybe
 
  • Like
Likes: Tally Ho
Aug 28, 2006
564
Bavaria 35E seattle
As an experienced buyer/seller of businesses, I'd say you're not looking at this correctly. The value of a business is based on a multiplier of historical earnings (more specifically - net), available lease term for the premises, goodwill (a value placed on the name of the business) and inventory and equipment (at a depreciated value). In this case the boats are merely equipment used in the business and a small part of the value. You can't say that the business is worth $83k by just adding up the value of the boats. But maybe I've got this wrong......are you merely buying boats to start your own school, or are you actually buying the school as well?
 
  • Like
Likes: tfox2069
Aug 28, 2006
564
Bavaria 35E seattle
BTW - if you are actually "taking over the business" as you say, I'd recommend getting in touch with your local Small Business Administration office. They will be very helpful in putting you in touch with experienced consultants and accountants that offer up some of their time in regards to business purchases and can help in a valuation of the business itself - not necessarily the value of the boats alone.
 
  • Like
Likes: fabienna
Sep 15, 2013
707
Catalina 270 Baltimore
You would be paying over 16K each for 5 old Catalinas that you could get without negotiating for well under 10K each. As far as the business goes, ask to see the last 5 years of the checking account. That will tell you a lot. Trust me from someone who's been there. The numbers don't work from the info you provided.
 
  • Like
Likes: fabienna

JMR

.
Aug 6, 2017
9
S2 9.2CC Yankton, SD
As some one who invested heavily in a business I knew nothing about, don’t do this. Unless you really need a tax write off you can afford! You don’t know what you don’t know and that’s a very expensive mistake! Voice of experience.
 
  • Like
Likes: Alansails
Jun 4, 2019
4
Catalina Catalina 22 NY dok
great all these inputs thx a lot!

the total price to purchase the school is much much higher. however the ony thing i actually buy, are the boats. dok is rented, there is no office or so that goes with it. it is basically a homepage, renting doc, 5 boats & trailers and a existing turnover/clients (which is quit low). they ask 270K for this, in there the only worthy things are the boats which they entitle about 83’000US.
the total prize is way too hight, i ll never pay this. I am willing to pay the actual boat market prize for the catalinas and a little more for the excisting compagny. for negociation I mostly wonder about the actual price of a cataline 22 that come with outboarder, quit new sails, trailer, etc.
I hear from everywhere that this is mostly under 10K.
 
Jun 4, 2019
4
Catalina Catalina 22 NY dok
w
You would be paying over 16K each for 5 old Catalinas that you could get without negotiating for well under 10K each. As far as the business goes, ask to see the last 5 years of the checking account. That will tell you a lot. Trust me from someone who's been there. The numbers don't work from the info you provided.
what u mean by checking account? I saw 3 last years tax reports of the compagny. is this what you mean?
 
Sep 15, 2013
707
Catalina 270 Baltimore
Tax statements mean nothing when trying to determine the viability of a company. The checking account tells you what they spend vs what they took in based on a time line. It also shows what your recurring costs really are. It tells the whole financial story of the company. I would still pass on this. Best of luck.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I hear from everywhere that this is mostly under 10K.
Woof!

I think $10K for a Catalina 22 is WAY TOO HIGH

Here are some market comparisons... note that only one of these five catalina 22 sailboats is over $5K.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/80208

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/79864

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/79880

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/79713

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/79727

There are also seven more Catalina 22 sailboats for sale right off of this forum's website (go to the main page and search).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: SkookumZac
Sep 17, 2018
90
Hunter 23.5 Charleston, SC
I wonder what they mean by 'First Generation Hull'? The Catalina22 Mk1 was in production until the mid-80s which would make these boats 4 decades old. In perfect condition WITH a trailer and an outboard they might be worth $5k tops.

Or, they could be newish production one-design Catalina 22s (non-sport). If that were the case, and they were less than 10yrs old, $10k might be reasonable WITH an outboard and trailer.

-Z
 
Oct 25, 2015
31
Catalina 22 Cave Run Lake ky
From the point of the value of the equipment I would say this is a bad deal. I have seen a lot of Catalina 22 sell for less than $2000 and as little as $300. I purchased a boat for $350.00 and spent $3500 for new rigging and new racing sails, those are cruising sails and cost $550 brand new. This maybe what someone has invested over time in the business and not a reflection of the value of the equipment and income that you could make or lose.
 
Jun 4, 2004
33
-catalina -22 fresno, calif.
hello in my opinion, for the boats the price is to high, I bought my 1976 22 ready to sail with a six horse Johnson ob
for $1,200.00, it just needed a lot of cleaning, the fellow I got it from paid $500.00 for it. all of the equipment your seller is including is just the stuff accumulated normally over the life of the boat. I think you can bargain him down. check the sellers records, if you are buying his business (I am not a business man) you may be liable for the business debts.
 
Apr 8, 2011
768
Hunter 40 Deale, MD
I agree with the others - the valuation on these boats is very high. I'd go with the NADA (or similar) value for the hulls. In addition to the Catalina 22s, that 27 seems very high - but we don't know the year. I just sold a 1975 Catalina 27 in the Annapolis area for $3,500 after advertising for over a year, and it was in pretty good shape with a good amount of upgrades. But it was STILL a 1975 hull, which isn't worth much, and your upgrades, well, you really don't make your money back on those.

Also, that dinghy - wow. The MOST EXPENSIVE rigid hull inflatable dinghy West Marine sells is $4,000 NEW. And they're on sale right now for $3,199. And if its a high pressure floor dinghy and hot a rigid hull, then the most expensive one sold new at WM is under $1,500. I know we don't know what brand it is, and I'm just looking at WM, and yes the higher end inflatables can get pricey, but a used 10 ft inflatable dinghy for $5,000??? I mean, is there a bag of cash in it?! Unless that thing is a center console, or a nearly new very high end Zodiac or something, again, I'd go with a reasonable valuation from nadaguides.com .

Good luck