1500 Hours on a 2011 Yanmar engine

May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
What is everyones thoughts on buying a sailboat with a 2011 Yanmar engine with an estimated 1500 hours? I'm a little skeptical and a little concerned considering the meter on the sailboat that we are in the process of purchasing has been out and there are no logs.

We are having the survey done this upcoming week and we are running oil samples and transmission fluid samples.

Whats your thoughts?
 
Mar 3, 2003
710
Hunter 356 Grand Rivers
I’ve got 1437 hours on my 2003 H356 and have used it more than most. I put about 475 of my hours on going from Kentucky Lake down the Tenn-Tom to SW Florida and returning. If the boat was from the northeast and made a couple of trips down and back to FL or the Bahamas, that could account for the hours. That boat has been doing a lot if motoring for its age. I would want to know how the hours got there. Did they do the loop, ICW etc? Must have done a lot of cruising. If they ran it to charge batteries, I’d Be more concerned than if they ran it at cruise speed. I would most certainly have the oil samples reviewed and check the injectors and timing. Also look for smoke, soot on the hull, other signs of wear or potential issues. I’ve got 3376 hours on my Northern Lights generator and think it has plenty of life left. Both engines have had injectors, timing set and have had regular servicing so 1500 hours doesn’t mean the engine is necessarily bad. Depends on how it was treated.
 
May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
I’ve got 1437 hours on my 2003 H356 and have used it more than most. I put about 500 of my hours on going from Kentucky Lake down the Tenn-Tom to SW Florida and returning. If the boat was from the northeast and made a couple of trips down and back to FL or the Bahamas, that could account for the hours. That boat has been doing a lot if motoring for its age. I would want to know how the hours got there. Did they do the loop, ICW etc? Must have done a lot of cruising. If they ran it to charge batteries, I’d Be more concerned than if they ran it at cruise speed. I would most certainly have the oil samples reviewed and check the injectors and timing. Also look for smoke, soot on the hull, other signs of wear or potential issues. I’ve got 3376 hours on my Northern Lights generator and think it has plenty of life left. Both engines have had injectors, timing set and have had regular servicing so 1500 hours doesn’t mean the engine is necessarily bad. Depends on how it was treated.
I agree and this is what concerns me. There are no hard records on the engine. Why not correct the hour meter and fix it when it went out or within a period of time. The engine has been used a lot even though the engine looks very clean.

The oils samples are going to tell a lot. Nervous considering that we found out that the boat was for sale a year ago from another broker stating the same hours. Something isn't adding up as far as the 1,500 hours goes.

There has to be more hours than just 1,500. And now has us concerned considering another year has passed and the same hours are still listed. The boat is rented out from time to time to other individuals, but my thinking is most that do not sail or don't know how to sail will use the engine more than sailing. If that makes sense?

I agree if the oil was changed on intervals, the impeller was changed out as needed, lifters adjusted over time, etc. then it would be a no brainer and no concern.
 
Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
I agree and this is what concerns me. There are no hard records on the engine. Why not correct the hour meter and fix it when it went out or within a period of time. The engine has been used a lot even though the engine looks very clean.

The oils samples are going to tell a lot. Nervous considering that we found out that the boat was for sale a year ago from another broker stating the same hours. Something isn't adding up as far as the 1,500 hours goes.

There has to be more hours than just 1,500. And now has us concerned considering another year has passed and the same hours are still listed. The boat is rented out from time to time to other individuals, but my thinking is most that do not sail or don't know how to sail will use the engine more than sailing. If that makes sense?

I agree if the oil was changed on intervals, the impeller was changed out as needed, lifters adjusted over time, etc. then it would be a no brainer and no concern.
Pumpkinpie, I get your point and it's well taken, not wanting to purchase a vessel that has no kept logs is smart thinking on your part. Checking oil won't tell you the whole story though, but just the last week. Anybody can change the oil and run it for a short time and put it up for sale. The best I would tell you is to get the survey done then sit down and tell the seller, that you agree with the price - minus engine rebuild price. Another words, You and the seller agree, to put into an escrow X thousands to be paid to the seller IF, after 90 days no problems found resulting in the engine failure above normal wear and tear. As the buyer, you must keep for not less than 90 day's completely accurate and documentation from this date forward till the end of 90 days period. If during this period of running an engine failure occurs, Both parties agree that the certified repair or qualified mechanic will determine the causes and estimated the cost for a rebuild if required. If both parties agree to do repairs the money in escrow is to be used to complete the repairs. However, If the parties do not agree. Seller will refund the buyer its full purchase price. ETC!.....

I think this will really tell you whether or not their serious seller or not. If they say NO way! Then RUN AWAY!
 
May 29, 2018
460
Canel 25 foot Shiogama, japan
Hi Pumpkipie.
First of all get yourself a new name. Seriously!
I will answer your question so stick with me. It is late at night here in Japan and rambles will happen.

So you are looking at a boat with a non functional hour meter and the seller claiming in has done 1500 hours.
You doubt that this is true because the boat was advertised a year ago with the same claim of 1500 hours.
Your question is "What do you think?"
I think , you are looking at a boat with a non functional hour meter and the seller claiming in has done 1500 hours.
You doubt that this is true because the boat was advertised a year ago with the same claim of 1500 hours.

Now, if I were selling a boat with non confirmable hours on the meter, I would under report. Wouldn't you?
This leaves you with the question, "The boat has an engine of questionable hours, so what condition is it in?"

That is the question. And the answer will come from the surveyor , who will have a clause in his/her contract that basically says all care, but no responsibility taken. He/ she will start the engine, listen to it and give an educated guess. That's all.
Another more scientific answer will come from an analysis of the engine and gearbox oil.
This will tell you the sulfides in the oil and so on and will give you an idea of how clean and efficient the engine is (maybe).
The last answer will come from your inspection and test run of the engine.
You are the buyer and the ultimate decision lies with you.
You have already said that the engine is clean externally. That is usually a good sign, but could also be meaningless.
So. Take a very strong flash light and a small mirror.
Check all of the engine cover bolts (front case, rocker cover. Pumps etc).
You are looking to see if the (original) paint around the bolts has been disturbed. This will tell you if the engine has been open for internal repairs. If they are noticable, ask what repairs were undertaken.
Check fuel lines and oil lines for abrasion or corrosion.
Check internal vee of pullies for wear. (cooling water pump and alternator). Also check for belt wear and dust from misaligned belts. Pulley wear will give you some indication of the amount of use the engine has had.
Check under engine for oil or fuel leaks.
Check engine mounts. Take a bar or lever and try to see if the mounts are still connected to the rubber.
Start the engine. Does it start first pop. If so that is a good sign. If the owner/seller tells you that the batteries are little low and it USUALLY starts first go, DOUBT IT!! Tell him you will come back when the batteries are charged.
Check engine exhaust for smoke (of any color) and the amount of discharge water, the more the better.(Water that is)
Check, how noisy is it . By noisy, I mean rattle noise.
Clicking and metal to metal noise is an indication of wear (or lack of adjustment/maintenance).
At the dock rev it as high as it will go. (this may scare the sh.t out of the seller but better for it to blow up before you buy it)
Tied up at the dock. check how smoothly it engages forward. reverse and neutral.
Leave the dock and take it for a run.
This is where other factors such as cleanliness of hull or prop will effect the engines performance.
How does it feel. Sloppy, tight, reliable?
That is about as far as you can check yourself.

Now. Jerry Clark has said that a couple of trips down the ICW would put that amount of hours on the engine, so the next question (to the seller) is where and how was she used? Why is there no log (of journeys)?
Also, what is the contact for the previous owner?

That is what is called due diligence. The engine check would take no more that 2 hours and you will need to know your way around down there anyway.
Tell the seller straight that you are ready to buy but just as ready to walk away if your concerns about the engine are not satisfied.

Pumpkinpie?
All the best
Gary
 
May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
Gary - Well said...straight to the point and it is appreciated. My wife is the one who set up the account ;) it's a name we call our little one. :)

On a more serious note.

I will make a sound decision once the surveyor completes his report and we get the results back from the lab on the oil samples. I'm no diesel mechanic but I do know that with my John Deere tractors I'm a fanatic about changing the oil and maintenance. If you take care of a diesel engine it can run for decades.

For me if an hour meter goes out I'm going to get it fixed. I'm not one to leave issues or problems for myself or to anyone else for that matter. Not everyone is as meticulous as I am.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,773
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I don't understand your concern. If the engine doesn't look neglected or mistreated, what's the problem with 1500 hours?
Most diesels will easily make 5000 hours with just some care and 10000 is reached without difficulty with good care. The WORST thing one can do to a diesel is NOT use it!
 
Dec 28, 2015
1,850
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
I will make a sound decision once the surveyor completes his report and we get the results back from the lab on the oil samples. I'm no diesel mechanic but I do know that with my John Deere tractors.
All of the survey reports I’ve read have been underwhelming in the power plant area. Your experience and judgement along with the lab results will probably be the most valuable.
 
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Dan_Y

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Oct 13, 2008
514
Hunter 36 Hampton
If the engine hour meter is on the VDO tach, the tach can be sent to a VDO repair shop and the LCD fixed. It is a very irritating and common problem. The tach maintains the hours even when the display goes bad and will show actual hours when fixed. In fact, at my request, the repair tech called me with the actual hours before completing the repair. The broker said”450-500 hours”. It had 730. Maybe get the owner/broker to have it fixed. It was $120 with shipping 4 years ago.
 
May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
I don't understand your concern. If the engine doesn't look neglected or mistreated, what's the problem with 1500 hours?
Most diesels will easily make 5000 hours with just some care and 10000 is reached without difficulty with good care. The WORST thing one can do to a diesel is NOT use it!
The reason being is you don't know/we don't know if the engine has 8,000 hours, 5,000 or other. It was used in a sailing/charter program. It is a big deal and the meter went out over 2 years ago with the owner not fixing it or physical logs of the hours.
 
May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
If the engine hour meter is on the VDO tach, the tach can be sent to a VDO repair shop and the LCD fixed. It is a very irritating and common problem. The tach maintains the hours even when the display goes bad and will show actual hours when fixed. In fact, at my request, the repair tech called me with the actual hours before completing the repair. The broker said”450-500 hours”. It had 730. Maybe get the owner/broker to have it fixed. It was $120 with shipping 4 years ago.
Who did you send it off to? I'll look them up and see if this can get done A.S.A.P! Or if anyone knows around St. Pete, Punta Gorda area that does repairs please let me know.
 
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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,773
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
The reason being is you don't know/we don't know if the engine has 8,000 hours, 5,000 or other. It was used in a sailing/charter program. It is a big deal and the meter went out over 2 years ago with the owner not fixing it or physical logs of the hours.
Well, if the boat is coming out of a bareboat program, then you can be absolutely certain that the engine has been abused, so budget for a rebuild/replacement in your future.
As far as the rest of the boat, keep in mind that the highest paid tech at any bareboat organization is the glass/gel coat guy. He's worth his weight in gold if he can make major damage disappear so even a good surveyor can't find it. The horror tales are infinite.
I wish you well.
 
Apr 8, 2011
768
Hunter 40 Deale, MD
Read the thread and - perhaps I missed it (apologies if I did) - but if your chief concern is the engine, why aren't you having an engine survey done? I bet your surveyor could recommend someone local they trust. I have no connection to these guys but just found them with a quick Google search - they're in FL: https://www.marineenginesurveyors.com/ Those guys will do a soup to nuts inspection, compression test, oil and transmission fluid testing, etc. They will be able to definitively tell you what condition the engine is in, and what you're looking at servicing/replacing in the immediate, near term, and longer term. I had a friend who bought a Sabre 36 several years ago, and his FIRST SEASON, had to do a total engine replacement. Around $12,000 if I recall. Paying for an engine survey is probably the right call here.

I had a similar issue with the 3YM30 in my 2009 H36 in that the hobbs meter was inop. The owner claimed 350 hours (which seemed low to me), and - suspiciously - refused to replace the Hobbs meter/tach before the sale. The engine seemed fine, and the surveyor noted no issues. I took a chance, bought the boat, and replaced the LCD on the tach myself after purchasing the boat. It had 367 hours on the motor when the new LCD powered up. Happy ending.

Good luck.
 
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May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
Got it fixed! Has 1,100 hours :) that's good news! Oil samples will tell more and thanks everyone for your help. I'll update after the surveyor.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Why would it be 1,100 hours when the meter read 1500 hours when broken? Or am I not understanding? Was the meter broken that long ago at a much smaller reading and 1500 hours was just an estimate? Seems very light use for a chartered service engine. (Just over 100 hrs per year?) That said, I have just 200 hours on my 2013 engine … very light use to sailing grounds & back.
 
May 2, 2019
136
Hunter 38 Annapolis, MD
It was an estimated guess that it had 1,500 hours from the owner. It hadn't been chartered in the past 18 months from what he is explaining. Getting oil samples done too. This might work out for us and it's less hours than expected. It was chartered on a lake from what I've just learned and then moved down to Florida.
 
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