Battling Mildew and Mold

D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,425
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Since owning Second Star we have been battling a musty moldy smell with limited success. Recently while poking around closed spaces on the boat with an endoscope I discovered a veritable forest of white mold. Knowing that @thinwater has studied this and has several recommendations I headed to his blog and found this article:

https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/11/100-best-chapter-12.html

My initial plan was to use Formula B, until I read that it was necessary to use real TSP, not the substitute TSP. In NY, real TSP is not available. and the DEC takes the law on this seriously.

Next up, Drew recommends Clorox Algae Eliminator because it contains benzalonium chloride. However, since writing the article, Clorox has seen fit to change it formula and it no longer contains benzalonium chloride. Although Amazon advertises the old version, it ships the new version Algae Eliminator2.

The questions:

How essential is TSP to the effectiveness of Formula B? And what role does it play, i.e., killing the mold, cleaning it up, or both?

The new Eliminator2 contains:
copper sulphate. 13.7% by weight

Poly[oxy-1,2-ethanediyl(dimethyliminio)-1,2-ethane diyl(dimethyliminio)-1,2-ethanediyl dichloride 6.5% by weight

aluminium sulfate 3-8 % by weight

Will the new product be as effective? If so, what concentration should be used?
 
Bob J.

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
Try hydrogen peroxide. I've came across two people last year up in maine that bought boats that sat around for years. The boats are from down south, built on pans & they swear by it.
 
BigEasy

BigEasy

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Jun 21, 2004
2,533
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Dave,
My reply doesn't answer your question directly; however, after flooding from Katrina, we used bleach to clean & rid mold from the house along with drying &dehumidification. Followed up with a product called Microban (now called mediclean) that is a hospital grade disinfectant. All of the mold remediation contractors in the area were using it. It's expensive; but good stuff. Might want to check it out.
 
JamesG161

JamesG161

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Feb 14, 2014
7,423
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
dlochner said:
Will the new product be as effective?
Click to expand
Here is my chemistry take on the new product.
1) copper sulphate .... algaecide and general microbe killer.... Copper is expensive, so in low use.
2) Poly[oxy-1,2-ethanediyl..... Kills Microbes. Used in contact lens disinfectants.
3) aluminium sulfate...common name Alum... Phospate remover.... Algae need Phosphates to grow.

So it appears to be a general cleaner but not sure on what surfaces it can be used.
Jim...
 
thinwater

thinwater

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Mar 26, 2011
3,414
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
That would be me.

The primary active (anti-mildew) ingredient in Formula B is borax. Skip the TSP and it will work about the same. I have done this many times.

Peroxide is good stuff, generally gentle on fabrics. All of the pro sail cleaners are based on it (percarbonate, AKA Oxiclean). But it dissipates within hours. The borax residue, on the other hand, is what prevents mildew from coming back.

Yes, I see they reformulated. Darn. Wet-and-Forget (Home Depot and other places) is a very similar BAC formula that is a little more expensive. I've used it as well.
 
P

Project_Mayhem

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Sep 24, 2018
2,599
O'Day 25 Chicago
@thinwater In what situations would you recommend each one of those products? What drawback, if any, are there (harsh smells, toxic chemicals, discolors fabric, etc)?
 
thinwater

thinwater

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Mar 26, 2011
3,414
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Homemade-Mildew-Preventers-11249-1.html
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/36_6/features/Mildew-Prevention-Sailboat_5933-1.html
https://www.practical-sailor.com/is...ew-Treatments-and-Stain-Removers_11256-1.html

Big questions. None of these will discolor fabrics. Very low odor. Borax (laundry aid) and BAC (in many hand cleaners) have well documented health evaluations.

The greatest drawback, I suppose, is that these will wash off of exterior surfaces.
 
S

senang

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Oct 21, 2009
304
hunter 38 Monaco
Go to EB and buy a cheap ozon generator. Let it run for a night with nobody on the closed boat. Open and ventilate boat. Mildew and mold went for a walk .
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,425
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
@thinwater Thank you for clarifying.

I did check the Wet and Go SDS and it is about a 9% solution, should it be diluted?

Any problem using Wet and Go and Formula B- (-the TSP)?
 
TomY

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Not a solution, but what have you done to improve the ventilation on the boat?

Is the mold the result of winter storage (you have a canvas cover) or is it a year round problem?

With enough ventilation, in your climate, couldn't you dry the closed spaces out to eliminate the mold?
 
D

dlochner

.
Jan 11, 2014
11,425
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
TomY said:
Not a solution, but what have you done to improve the ventilation on the boat?
Click to expand
Good questions.

The ventilation throughout most of the boat is pretty good. The musty smell is mostly there during the spring after the boat has been closed up all winter. The 2 places that I found the mold were tucked away in virtually inaccessible places. One place was behind the nav station and a longitudinal bulkhead with only a small opening at the top and bottom, neither opening has access to the main cabin. Maintaining air flow through there is virtually impossible.
 
JamesG161

JamesG161

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Feb 14, 2014
7,423
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Previous discussions.
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/black-mold.176769/&highlight=black mold
and
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/exterior-mildew-will-anything-prevent-it.175780/

If you want TSP or Trisodium Phosphate Na3PO4

You can "roll your own":pimp:
Na2CO3 + H3PO4 → Na2HPO4 + CO2 + H2O
Na2HPO4 + NaOH → Na3PO4 + H2O

Na2CO3 is
https://www.amazon.com/Pool-Increas...ywords=ph+up&qid=1559310814&s=gateway&sr=8-15

H3PO4 is
https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Naval-Dissolver-16-Fluid-553472/dp/B000C016OC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2IATK0M8Q8QR8&keywords=naval+jelly+rust+remover&qid=1559311011&s=gateway&sprefix=naval+jelly,aps,178&sr=8-2

NaOH is
https://www.amazon.com/Drano-Kitchen-Granules-Remover-Ounce/dp/B077LYLKZZ/ref=sr_1_15?crid=3EHJN7BQ4AU4S&keywords=drano&qid=1559311074&s=gateway&sprefix=drano,aps,181&sr=8-15

Borax is
https://www.amazon.com/20-Mule-Team-Laundry-Booster/dp/B01NBJZ2F8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2WCZPB03AXWZT&keywords=twenty+mule+team+borax&qid=1559311334&s=gateway&sprefix=twenty+mu,aps,171&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

Wet and Forget is
https://www.amazon.com/Forget-800003-Mildew-Algae-Remover/dp/B001GTRBMO/ref=sr_1_4?
crid=2QX3O1DDLGNIZ&keywords=wet+and+forget+moss+mold+mildew+%26+algae+stain+remover&qid=1559311387&s=gateway&sprefix=wet+and+f%2Caps%2C184&sr=8-4
_________
IMHO Wet and Forget is best since is leaves a "barrier" inside the cabin surfaces and is neutral pH.
It is a "gym machine cushion cleaner". I buy mine from a local chemical supply house at $11/gallon and dilute it 4 to 1 for the boat.
Bottle says for "cushion cleaner", dilute 1 tablespoon per quart of water.

This is the same chemical we used to remediate mold after "Katrina" flooding.
Jim...
 
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rgranger

rgranger

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Jan 19, 2010
12,370
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Lot of good chemistry here.... lovin'it

You asked about Poly[oxy-1,2-ethanediyl(dimethyliminio)-1,2-ethane diyl(dimethyliminio)-1,2-ethanediyl] dichloride

upload_2019-5-31_9-51-18.png


It is a quaternary amine surfactant (i.e. anti-microbial soap). The carbons in the chain make it soluble to many organic structures (such as a cell membrane), and the charges on the nitrogen atoms allow it to be a water soluble chloride salt. The oxygen also helps make it more soluble in polar organic media. It disrupts cell membranes. Additionally, if the two nitrogen atoms become reduced by the cell's defenses, then the nitrogen atoms will be left with a lone pair of electrons that can now chelate key metal atoms in the cell and disrupt metabolism. Leaving a residue of this stuff behind would help prevent further incursions. However, the best way to prevent mold is to have NO organic media for them to feed on... so a very clean surface also helps.

Here is the MSDS sheet (see attached). As you can see it is relatively safe to handle.

I also agree with the ozone idea mentioned above. One last piece of advice I can offer is to lay out a few pans of moth balls the next time you close your boat up for a prolonged period. The naphthalene in moth balls kills mold SPORES.

I started using moth balls years ago in my boat and it has remained mold free ever since.
 

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rgranger

rgranger

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Jan 19, 2010
12,370
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Big job....

Take EVERYTHING out of the boat. Then go in with a pressure washer and a shop vac and blast. Then bleach every thing and throw out and replace a lot of other stuff. The wood will need to be bleached, and treated and oiled and maybe replaced in some cases.

Sorry but that is a big job.
 
Kingjim91

Kingjim91

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Jul 6, 2013
221
Catalina 30TR, Atomic 4 2480 Milwaukee
I agree with rgranger. You need to deep clean.

We have a routine every spring to pull out all the cushions, etc., and wipe down every surface we can with Lysol bathroom cleaner with oxy. Since we started doing that, we haven’t had any musty odors.
 
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