Portable Holding Tank Overboard Discharge

Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Quick backstory, as a Great Lakes (shark free and unsalted) sailor our boat does not have a macerator or any way to empty the holding tank other than at a pump out station. We can connect a direct discharge hose once we leave the the Lakes.

We're planning a trip out the St. Lawrence and then turning right. Along the way we'll be sailing through discharge and no discharge zones and do not want to be dependent on finding pump out stations or sail long distances with a full holding tank.

Instead of installing a fixed permanent macerator or waste pump, I'm thinking about building a portable pump to connect to the deck pumpout fitting and then discharging over board. It would be powered through a 12v outlet in the cockpit. After use, the hose and pump would be flushed with sea water, drained and then capped to prevent leakage.

The pump would be a Whale Gulper Toilet Pump with Trident 146 or 147 hose. Edson sells the pumpout hose fittings (and don't tell them) at very reasonable prices. The whole set up would be less than $300. Just as important, I wouldn't have to spend time in a cramped locker looking for a place to mount the pump.

Am I missing something here? Storing the pump would be easier than finding a permanent mounting place and once we return to Lake Ontario we could just remove it from the boat to keep the authorities happy.
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,856
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
I don't know what your hardware configuration is aboard, but installation of a macerator may not be that difficult. I would certainly look at it. The only comment I have on your ad hoc pump out is "yecchh". I handle waste once before it goes into the tank, and not interested in a repeat, so to speak :)
 
Mar 1, 2012
2,182
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
remember- on the east cost of the US, to pump overboard legally you must be at least 3 miles offshore. I've gone from Annapolis Maryland to Texas and have seldom had a problem finding a pumpout station. Many are free.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I don't know what your hardware configuration is aboard, but installation of a macerator may not be that difficult. I would certainly look at it. The only comment I have on your ad hoc pump out is "yecchh". I handle waste once before it goes into the tank, and not interested in a repeat, so to speak :)
Around us, pump outs are mostly self-service, so, while I would rather not review the toilet's production, it is not a foreign experience to pump out the tank.

Fueling is also self-service. The dockhand will hand the nozzle to you, but you get to fill the tank and are responsible if you put it in the wrong tank or dump it overboard.

remember- on the east cost of the US, to pump overboard legally you must be at least 3 miles offshore. I've gone from Annapolis Maryland to Texas and have seldom had a problem finding a pumpout station. Many are free.
We routinely sail 3+ miles off shore on Lake Ontario, gets us away from the fishing boats and the powerboats. :biggrin:, going off shore isn't an issue. I've heard tales of people finding convenient pump out stations a problem. Also it is a little bit of a convenience issue, pumping out is one less task to attend to before casting off.

Thanks for the thoughts.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
Not just the east coast of the US...it's illegal to dump tank in ALL US waters, coastal and inland, and that includes all the Great Lakes on both sides of the border (that's been true under a treaty with Canada since before there were any US marine sanitation laws). So you're not going "offshore" in Lake Ontario, Doug
To dump a tank legally, you must be in open ocean--not in a bay or estuary or river, open ocean--at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...12 miles on the Gulf side of the FL Keys.

And btw, Charlie...You're a sailor, which is why you've obviously never spent any time on the inland river system that runs from the upper Midwest to the Gulf through a lot of rural countryside. But a lot of powerboat owners--mostly trawlers--who do the Great Loop do...and they'll tell you that you can go for 100 miles or more without ever seeing a single fuel dock, even further without one that has a pumpout.

--Peggie
 
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Oct 1, 2007
1,856
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Not just the east coast of the US...it's illegal to dump tank in ALL US waters, coastal and inland, and that includes all the Great Lakes on both sides of the border (that's been true under a treaty with Canada since before there were any US marine sanitation laws). So you're not going "offshore" in Lake Ontario, Doug
To dump a tank legally, you must be in open ocean--not in a bay or estuary or river, open ocean--at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...12 miles on the Gulf side of the FL Keys.

And btw, Charlie...You're a sailor, which is why you've obviously never spent any time on the inland river system that runs from the upper Midwest to the Gulf through a lot of rural countryside. But a lot of powerboat owners--mostly trawlers--who do the Great Loop do...and they'll tell you that you can go for 100 miles or more without ever seeing a single fuel dock, even further without one that has a pumpout.

--Peggie
So Peggie, are you hinting that ".....if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one nearby to hear it, that it doesn't make a noise..." :)
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
So you're not going "offshore" in Lake Ontario, Doug
To dump a tank legally, you must be in open ocean--not in a bay or estuary or river, open ocean--at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline
Hi Peggy, its Dave. :)

Oh, I am well aware of the discharge rules on the Great Lakes. I was once boarded by the USCG. The first thing they wanted to see was my bilge (something about the water and the rock pile I had just been pulled off of) and the second was the head/holding tank discharge.

By sailing offshore, I meant sailing 3 or more miles away from land is not a big issue, we do it all the time. With the prevailing west winds, we beam reach out for a couple of hours at 5+ knots, tack and beam reach back.

For those who have not sailed the Great Lakes, it is more an inland sea than a lake. Lake Ontario, the smallest of the lakes, is about 150 miles long and 40 miles wide. At its deepest point, the bottom of the lake is about 600 feet below sea level.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
So Peggie, are you hinting that ".....if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one nearby to hear it, that it doesn't make a noise..." :)
I think she was saying that "if there is no bear in the woods when the tree falls.... " ;)
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
So Peggie, are you hinting that ".....if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one nearby to hear it, that it doesn't make a noise..." :)
Nope...nor am I saying OR hinting about anything to with bears in the woods either...but I think Dave is. :wink: And btw, Dave...as long as we're correcting names you might want to check the correct spelling for mine. :kick: :biggrin:
 
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Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
And while I have the floor for a minute... Dave, you said:
Instead of installing a fixed permanent macerator or waste pump, I'm thinking about building a portable pump to connect to the deck pumpout fitting and then discharging over board.
It would be easier and cheaper to replace your portable potty with an "MSD" version. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it. You could install a y-valve and macerator pump in the pumpout line and have it both ways. 'Twould eliminate the need to carry and store a pump and stinky piece of hose.

If you're thinking about just shooting the tank contents out the deck pumpout fitting instead of using a hose, I don't recommend it. In the late '70s Jabsco came up with deck fitting that had both a pumpout fitting and a discharge port for the macerator...not a hose connection, just an "thru-hull" in the side deck. It was NOT one of their best ideas! If that side of the boat wasn't to leeward or couldn't be held there, or the wind shifted even a little, tank contents spewed all over the deck. There were some notable disasters! They decided to try installing it in the side of boat...that didn't work either. The pumpout connection was often inaccessible from a dock, the macerator sprayed tank contents all over the side of the boat. They gave up. I first heard about it when someone who'd bought an older boat with one of 'em installed in the side deck sent me a photo of it asking me if I knew what it was. I didn't didn't have a clue, so I sent the photo to several people I know who'd been in the business that long...and one of 'em had actually worked for Jabsco when they created it and told me all about it. About a year later I was at a Grand Banks owners rendezvous in WA state where there was a boat with one in the hull...neither of 'em were connected to any plumbing. This time I could tell him what it was. I've attached a photo of that one here. I dunno what Jabsco's name for it was...I call it the Jabsco Poop Shooter.

--Peggie
 

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Jan 7, 2011
4,726
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I think if I was going to living on a boat for an extended period of time, with no pump out facilities convenient, I would spend the extra time and money to dump waste correctly and with less “eeeewww” factor.

May just be me though,

Greg
 
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DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,690
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Dave, many years ago, my father sailed his Viking 33 to the Caribbean and back. The boat was designed for the Great Lakes and had no overboard discharge. He didn't want to modify the plumbing so he fastened a manual pump to a board and connected a reinforced suction hose to the inlet and a collapsible hose the outlet - kind of like the roll up rain downspout hoses. The reinforced hose had a deck pumpout fitting and was long enough to reach the water. The collapsible hose had no fitting on the far and but was long enough to reach the water from the deck and could roll up quite small when not in use. The pump looked like a Whale Gusher pump but I can't remember what kind it actually was. The board was big enough to stand on while pumping. After use, the inlet hose would go in the water and it was pumped for a minute or two to clean out.
This worked well enough when needed and I don't remember any residual smells from it. Having the outlet long enough to reach the water removes some of the gag reflex, really makes it about the same as an underwater discharge.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,942
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
Install a proper head thru hull seacock and a Y-valve that you can lock closed when in no-dischage waters. When we have done deliveries offshore we are almost never closer in than 20 miles and sometimes 50 miles out. You will be "relieved" to have the option....
:)
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Thanks for the comments.

Peggie and others, I do have direct overboard discharge, currently disconnected from my PH II because the authorities around here are touchy about these things.

What I don't have is a way to empty the holding tank other than at a pump out station. When Jim Taylor and the Sabre Design Team designed my boat they designed a great sailing boat with very livable accommodations at the expense of storage. So there is limited space to install a permanently mounted macerator or other pump without intruding on valuable storage space.

He didn't want to modify the plumbing so he fastened a manual pump to a board and connected a reinforced suction hose to the inlet and a collapsible hose the outlet - kind of like the roll up rain downspout hoses
Yes, this is the kind of set up I'm thinking about, except I'd be using an electric pump. The roll up hose is a good idea. Storing 5 or 6 feet of 1 ½" hose is one of my concerns. For a brief moment, I did fall prey to idea of just shooting the effluent over the side and about a half second later realized that it was terrible idea, the hose will be long enough to go a few inches below the water line. I did not plan on using expensive and stiff sanitation hose on the discharge side, was thinking of less expensive old style bilge pump hose since it would not be pressurized. There's a video on the Whale Pump site that shows the pump using plain old vinyl hose.


EDIT: Found this flat PVC discharge hose at Lowe's. I think this is the ticket, easy storage and cheap. https://www.lowes.com/pd/EASTMAN-1-1-2-in-x-15-ft-PVC-Flat-Discharge-Hose/1000365059
 
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Mar 1, 2012
2,182
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
Very true Peggie. ALL of my cruising has been in salt water, around the coast.

Something that did puzzle me- in the Bahamas, we found ONE pump out facility- that was in Nassau. You'd think there would be more
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Something that did puzzle me- in the Bahamas, we found ONE pump out facility- that was in Nassau. You'd think there would be more
This is one of my concerns prompting an alternative solution. If we are in a marina, I don't want to discharge in the marina, same if we end up in a small bay or a crowded bay. Even more than not discharging in a marina, I don't want to haul around 30 gallons of smelly stuff. :(
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Hmmmm

So what if you used something like this...

upload_2019-5-29_11-27-28.png

You line the bucket with a heavy plastic bag and put an absorbent dry powder in the bottom of the bag. Do you business, throw a scoop of the powder over the "deposit". After a few uses, you tie the bag shut and secure with a few extra zip ties and store the bag in an alternate PVC bucket. Maybe double bag it :yikes:

At the marina, you discreetly "take out the trash". No lugging around smelly stuff. I used to use something similar to this approach camping and we used garden lime as the "powder" but there are some super absorbent kitty litter products that are probably safer and less messy.

Just a thought and less work to accomplish your goal of having an alternative
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Hmmmm

So what if you used something like this...

View attachment 165404
You line the bucket with a heavy plastic bag and put an absorbent dry powder in the bottom of the bag. Do you business, throw a scoop of the powder over the "deposit". After a few uses, you tie the bag shut and secure with a few extra zip ties and store the bag in an alternate PVC bucket. Maybe double bag it :yikes:

At the marina, you discreetly "take out the trash". No lugging around smelly stuff. I used to use something similar to this approach camping and we used garden lime as the "powder" but there are some super absorbent kitty litter products that are probably safer and less messy.

Just a thought and less work to accomplish your goal of having an alternative
An interesting idea, but I think a little primitive for our lifestyle. :)
 
Jul 1, 2010
962
Catalina 350 Lake Huron
Ok...I'll be the first to mention it :) You may want to consider a composter. We have a C-head on our Seaward 25. It has a small foot print. With the C-head and the second 5 gal storage pail, we can get a months worth of usage on board before we have to worry about finding a good place to dump / bury it. You do have to figure out what you want to do with the urine. For 2 of us, we generally fill a 1 gal urine container each day, and store 3 on board. Not hard to find a place on in the woods, or in a bathroom to dump it every 3 days or so. BTW, nothing smelly to haul around. The "compost" smells like dirt. We use coconut coir for a media. This system works great for us on the Seaward. On our Catalina 350, we have an electric Raritan Sea Era head with a holding tank. We like that too. Different strokes for different boats.
 
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