Backstay Chainplate

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,636
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I am interested to hear comments on my situation. Photos are of the aft chainplate bolts on the outside of the hull. Last year the top bolt was suspect, this year, now the second bolt is suspect and cracks have developed. What do you think? This is a solidly built offshore boat, but obviously showing weakness.
 

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Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
That is not a good sign. Would not suggest any ocean passages until you do some investigation into the cause of the cracks.

What does the chainplate look like?

The cracks would lead me to believe that there is movement in the bolts as the mast pumps. There may be wear and worse in the chainplate.

This is all supposition. It requires inspection to determine what is happening. Then a plan to correct the condition.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,770
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
hey, higgs, long time no see. Good to hear from you.

What do they look like inside? As John said, could be metal failure first then fiberglass or just the glass.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,401
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
It is interesting that the cracks are in a more or less straight line. It could just be gelcoat.

My first thought was the hull was built in 2 pieces and the joint is flexing. I'd be inclined to pull the chain plate and grind away some of the gel coat to inspect the glass.
 

NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,060
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Doesn't look good and looks in need of repair. As was mentioned what does the inside look like. Also appears some of the bolts are loose, which if they are every time the rigs adds force it will jolt the bolts and structure which would cause significant damage. Also, check your rig and make sure it is tight enough.... again too loose will jolt attached parts when force is applied. Inspect inside... a repair will include additional glass on the inside to sure-up the transom and possibly a larger backing plate. Tighten the bolts!!

Greg
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,703
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
It looks like the bolts became loose which caused them to ride up against the edge of the holes. A properly designed shear joint will take all of the shear in friction, in this case between the chain plate and the inside of the hull. If the bolts are not torqued properly, the load will be taken by the bolts riding up against the side of the hole which can cause stress cracking.
At this point, I'd take it apart and inspect the fiberglass from the inside. If the glass is damaged or shows any evidence of cracking (not just the gelcoat on the outside) then it will need to be repaired.
 
Aug 2, 2005
1,155
Pearson 33-2 & Typhoon 18 Seneca Lake
Hello higgs,
First, a disclaimer concerning my skills/knowledge. I am not an engineer, but trains are awesome! :biggrin:

However, although there never was a plate of any sort (wood or metal) on the outside of the hull I would think it would be helpful to spread the stress around a bit rather than confining it to the bolts that appear to have small heads. The downside of that plan is the fact that any damage like you see now would be covered by the plate. Also, the stern is not flat so the plate would need to conform to the hull shape.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
It looks like the bolts became loose which caused them to ride up against the edge of the holes. A properly designed shear joint will take all of the shear in friction, in this case between the chain plate and the inside of the hull. If the bolts are not torqued properly, the load will be taken by the bolts riding up against the side of the hole which can cause stress cracking.
At this point, I'd take it apart and inspect the fiberglass from the inside. If the glass is damaged or shows any evidence of cracking (not just the gelcoat on the outside) then it will need to be repaired.
Yes, the bolts attaching the chainplate to the hull look loose. Definitely not snugged down. That's not the way it was meant to be, for sure.

It's been a long time since I took a course in Mechanics, so what I'm about to write may be off, so please excuse me if I'm wrong

It's not clear to me that chainplates-to-hull joints function primarily as slip-critical joints. I've worked on bulkheads attached to fiberglass with bolts, and they exhibit wear patterns consistent with bearing-type joints.

Rigger Brion Toss' book The Rigger's Apprentice discusses chainplate design, an he does it in the context of a bearing-type joint. His book offers skantlings for calculating the bearing surfaces between the chainplate and the bolts and shroud pins. He doesn't address the requirement of sizing the faying (contact) area of the chainplate-to-hull joint at all. His book doesn't mention prepping the faying surfaces for a slip-critcal joint, nor the force required to create the friction. He's an acknowleged expert in the field, so if it functions primarily as a slip-critical joint why doesn't he mention the surface friction between the chainplate and the hull?

Here's an alternative, hypothesis about the cracks in the pictures, in the context of a bearing-type joint. The chainplate to hull bolts weren't snugged down, allowing the chainplate bolts to be misaligned with the holes in the hull. The chainplate was free to move up and down a fraction of a millimeter or two with each wave and gust and tack. This lead to point loading of the bolts laminate on the top inner edges of the holes, deforming the laminate. Over thousands of cycles, the laminate flexed and fatigued, and cracked.

In any case, if that were my boat, I'd remove the chain plates and inspect the laminate for cracks. If the gelcoat is cracked like that, the laminate has been flexing in that exact location enough to worry me. If I found any cracks in the laminate, I'd grind out the damaged area and replace it. It would be a good time to remove the chainplate and inspect it for crevice corrosion too. YMMV.
 
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May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Bolts are moving. Inspect chainplate and replace bolts. Hope is just the glass that is cracking.
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,966
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
Mine was set up like that altho a flat surface. I had an external backing plate made with polished SS and square holes laser cut to fit the carriage bolts properly. I didn't like that the carriage bolts were digging into the glass.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
It is not clear if they were carriage bolts or just bolts with a round head. Either way the last of backing plate makes me think that the fiberglass is rather thick back there. Bear in mind the design is a double ender with likely a part of the keel rising up under the fiberglass. If there is cracking, as is apparent, all the more a concern.