Thanks for reporting, John. Good for the CG.
As for the boaters in distress? F-ing idiots. Really.
Boater Lost off Whidbey Isl WA
- Thread starter Head Sail
- Start date
As for the boaters in distress? F-ing idiots. Really.
Something I do not understand. All cellphones are required by law to have built in GPS. When you call 911, the GPS signal is reported to the dispatch. They should know precisely where you are. I've called 911 (on land). I didn't know where I was at, but as I was trying to describe it, the 911 operated interrupted me, and stated, OK, we got it, we know right where you are.
The 911 dispatch should will have record of any 911 call placed. There should be no question of if the call was made or not.
Something else odd, the other boat in the area would have had a throwable cushion. Seems even if they could not make a rescue attempt, they could have at least thrown a cushion.
Lastly, While boats under 20 feet are required to have full flotation, I wonder if that should be increased to 25 or 27 feet. I have a 24 foot with full flotation. It does not interfere with the functionality or the space down below.
The 911 dispatch should will have record of any 911 call placed. There should be no question of if the call was made or not.
Something else odd, the other boat in the area would have had a throwable cushion. Seems even if they could not make a rescue attempt, they could have at least thrown a cushion.
Lastly, While boats under 20 feet are required to have full flotation, I wonder if that should be increased to 25 or 27 feet. I have a 24 foot with full flotation. It does not interfere with the functionality or the space down below.
Not exactly. 911 uses cell tower triangulation to estimate where a phone is. That estimation could be reasonably precise or quite a bit off depending on the towers in the area. I have a cell modem on my boat that sends some telemetry back to my house, and its location is usually only within 5 miles or so. There are new 911 systems and phone capabilities to enable the phones to send the exact location, but not all dispatchers have the capability to receive that data.
Besides the possibility/difficulty of 911 systems, you want the folks on the water to know you are in trouble. COAST GUARD , other boaters . VHF radio is the best chance for a water rescue, in my opinion.
Boat VHF radio and and hand held floatable VHF radio on person are your best shot at talking to someone. EPIRB for your boat & Personal EPIRB on your person. Then surviving till help arrives. In Pacific NW waters that means Personal Flotation Device and a Dry Suit. You get 1 maybe 2hours of total immersion time I figure, depending on your health and equipment. At least if your floating they can find the body and the insurance will pay up.
We all have the opportunity to make choices concerning our safety equipment. Choose wisely. Then go out and enjoy the water.
Boat VHF radio and and hand held floatable VHF radio on person are your best shot at talking to someone. EPIRB for your boat & Personal EPIRB on your person. Then surviving till help arrives. In Pacific NW waters that means Personal Flotation Device and a Dry Suit. You get 1 maybe 2hours of total immersion time I figure, depending on your health and equipment. At least if your floating they can find the body and the insurance will pay up.
We all have the opportunity to make choices concerning our safety equipment. Choose wisely. Then go out and enjoy the water.
I'm not versed in 911 training but my guess is 911 operators are trained to locate people by streets (So that responders can find the victim.) On the water there is no such grid so the operators can't locate a victim. I've seen somewhere they just relay the call to USCG or local marine police. Unless you know AND can communicate your position rescue is going to be delayed. I doubt telling a 911 operator your Lat/Long is going to advance your cause very much.
We are talking about fishermen here. Not talking down at or to fishermen, but they do not have the same mindset as seasoned sailors. We use devices that tell us and show us where we are. Most fishermen use devices that show them where they are, or where to find fish. I don't know much about fish finders, but they probably do not show lat/long. And I agree with 911 operators not understanding anything but cross streets. Not talking down at or to 911 operators, but that is not their forte.
Sorry to beat this dead horse, but I STILL want to know why that other boat did not stay and try to help. That chaps my hide.
Sorry to beat this dead horse, but I STILL want to know why that other boat did not stay and try to help. That chaps my hide.
True.
But could it be that they saw what happened to "the other guys" and decided to hightail home before it happened to them?
Still jerks, though.
No idea. I have not seen any info about the other boat nor further info about the conditions in that area of the Juan D Fuca Strait.
Having transited that area, it would be a lee shore after a fetch of some 60 plus miles of open water. You experience ocean swells coming thru the strait. It opens up just past the southern end of Vancouver Island and there is a stretch of 30-40 miles of open water providing plenty of area to build wind waves on top of the ocean swell that beat against the west facing Whidbey Island coast line. The use of the term "Rogue Wave" is kind of self serving, as compared to "we were unprepared for the conditions".
The Small Craft Advisory had been in place since 1500 the day before and was to continue till 2300 the night of the event.
While we did not observe much in the way of small craft conditions in Rosario it does not surprise me that they existed further south of us in the area of the event. The Juan D Fuca is deep 100 plus fathoms and shallows out against the west shore of Whidbey. There can be a strong current 2-3 knots on the flood and ebb tides. The moon and sun were in position to generate sizeable tidal movement of some 6Ft the morning of the event. The Ebb started about 0330 and would have been moving against the wind wave and Ocean swell. Making for at the least uncomfortable anchorage in the area. When wind wave and ocean swell conspire against a lee shore I can see how an inexperienced boater could see a Rogue Wave.
No idea about the capabilities of the other boater have been shared. Having just observed what most power boaters feel is a solid boat flip and sink, I suspect the other boat might be a bit resistant to put their boat in the same position.
The West Coast of Whidbey Isl really is not near a CG location where a CG vessel could be quickly dispatched.
Boaters need to be prepared to save themselves.
I agree on the Rogue Wave vs we were caught unaware. Very few actually know that a Rogue Wave is 1 in 10000? vs the normal pattern of waves with several consistent wave heights then one or two larger and then one random big wave, but nowhere near Rogue height. But internet/youtube makes Rogue sound much more menacing. I feel very bad for the family of the one that perished, but as I said, the account has many holes. I also question the boat that did not turn and help.
with you. We may never know what really happened unless there is a CG accident report made public.
John's #49 summary was excellent. That why he's our Intrepid Reporter.
Look kids, rogue waves occur in the blooming ocean.
The eastern end of the SJdF is NOT the ocean, last I looked.
Small 24 foot fishing boat in conditions John described with dummies aboard and more on the boat close to them?
Sheesh.
All previous comments about condolences remain valid. Stupidity is a separate issue.
Look kids, rogue waves occur in the blooming ocean.
The eastern end of the SJdF is NOT the ocean, last I looked.
Small 24 foot fishing boat in conditions John described with dummies aboard and more on the boat close to them?
Sheesh.
All previous comments about condolences remain valid. Stupidity is a separate issue.
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If you go to the Whidbey News Times article and scroll to the bottom, you will see a conversation between the survivor and the boater who called in the sinking.
http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/news/one-man-found-alive-another-dead-in-water-off-whidbey/
http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/news/one-man-found-alive-another-dead-in-water-off-whidbey/
Rough waves can occur ANYWHERE. It really depends on what is underneath the surface. I hit one on a Jetski that sent me 8 feet into the air and I was inside a break wall! It just depends on which way the currents flow and what is under the surface. I was flying along at about 50 mph, jumping waves and barely leaving the water. All of a sudden I hit a big one. There is a section dredged out for large ships to pass. The water goes from about 6 feet deep to who knows how deep. It only takes a small direction in wind change for the waves crisscross at that point.
We really don't know what the conditions were in the area where the boat went down. We don't even know where the boat went down, other than the shore was obviously visible. Depending on which side of the wave you are on, it is difficult to recognize a large difference in wave height. You can be pounding along and not really leaving the water, and the next wave, you go flying. At 25 or 30 mph, things change a lot faster than sailboat speed. The only real fault would be for the one passenger not wearing a PDF.
One very odd thing. He stated the boat took a full minute to go down. Seems odd they did not have time to grab another PDF or even a throwable cushion.
Rogue waves are sometimes mentioned synonymously with “gigantic waves.” A rogue wave might, or might not, be gigantic, and vice-versa. If a vessel is lying to the seas and a major wave approaches on the beam and rolls the ship hard, people would call that a rogue wave as it is traveling “rogue” to the direction of the normal seas. If it is twice as large or more, but approaches with the direction of the other seas, it’s just another wave, bigger perhaps, in the set. If a “gigantic wave”, approaches in the sets, and breaks over vessel wreaking all kinds of havoc, some might refer to that as a rogue wave as well, although it’s not really traveling “rogue” to the sets, etc. If the boat in this story was actually hit by a rouge traveling across the normal seas that were arriving down the Juan de Fuca, where did it come from? Perhaps it might have “bounced off” of some vertical rock face, etc.
"A rogue wave is one that is at least twice the "significant wave height", which refers to the average of the third highest waves in a given period of time."
"Rogues, called 'extreme storm waves' by scientists, are those waves which are greater than twice the size of surrounding waves."
No specification of of how big it needs to be to be defined as "rogue"
"Rogues, called 'extreme storm waves' by scientists, are those waves which are greater than twice the size of surrounding waves."
No specification of of how big it needs to be to be defined as "rogue"
One takeaway from this event (and there are several) is to plan how to retrieve your position quickly in a format that rescuers can understand. Your position is the first thing USCG will ask. A mayday call without providing a position may likely be considered unfounded without corroboration. Listening to VHF traffic in SJdF yesterday most calls for assistance did not immediately provide position data. Thus, limited response. When calling a mayday and going down fast your life may well depend on how quickly you retrieve your position information.
As I said, people have synonymized “rogue” with “gigantic.” You hear doctors these days say certain foods are “healthy.” Now, how can a dead, cooked vegetable or piece of meat be “healthy?” They’ve synonymized “healthy” with healthful— the correct term. It’s from growing up listening to news/TV people butcher the language. Now, they are all succumbing to social media perversions. Certainly, the term rogue wave predates definitions constructed by scientists under 100 yr old. If a rogue wave is a storm wave, then what do we call a wave not traveling with the normal seas that slams into a vessel, knocking it over?
Rogue is something acting unexpectedly, out of the ordinary, usually with destructive consequences.
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What I remember about waves from my safety at sea course was that about once an hour you are going to get a big wave 4x the average. The bad news about the big wave and a lee shore is it is 1, bigger and 2 breaks further out. So you may think you are safe outside the surf line but once an hour the big wave comes through and you might be in it. Google "Low Speed Chase"