Hey I had another thread here about an A4 engine... I looked at the Catalina 30 again today and found something alarming. The fiberglass appears to be coming apart from the core around the depth meter indicator. Is this as big of a problem as I think it is?
Is this hull Delamination?
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I don’t think it’s a big problem. There is not a big load on the fiberglass structure beside the companionway. It probably doesn’t need the wood core there. And the fix is easy. Apply epoxy on the surfaces around the hole, clamp it, then fill the voids with thickened epoxy (micro spheres will thicken your epoxy.) I pulled and reseated our cabin windows a while back, and used this technique where water ingress had rotted the core. The fix has held up for 7 years now with no leaks, and no signs of deterioration.
Ah. But if water has been getting in these cracks for some time... in between the core and fiberglass... wouldn't it have accumulated and caused core rot elsewhere? Such as the floor and other cored structures below?
Probably not. The hull is separated from the cabin and deck where they join at the outer edge of the deck. This structure eventually drains into the bilge which is designed to hold water.
The gap on the inside is normal and is the head liner. The on the outside is a bit more concerning, but not necessarily a deal breaker. If this was my boat, I'd probably follow @David in Sandusky ' s advice. Squirt some thickened epoxy inbetween the plywood and the outer skin. Make sure it it thickened so doesn't just run down and pool at the bottom of the bulkhead.
Th plywood looks nice and dry, I wouldn't worry too much about this. You are also looking at a very old boat and a fairly inexpensive one. There will be issues, all boats have issues, older boats have many issues. It is best to decide which issues are within your ability to repair, how important are those issues, and how much time and money are you willing to invest in an old boat.
Inspecting the Aging Sailboat by Don Casey would be a worthwhile investment. It will help you determine what to look at and which issues are really issues worth worrying about.
Th plywood looks nice and dry, I wouldn't worry too much about this. You are also looking at a very old boat and a fairly inexpensive one. There will be issues, all boats have issues, older boats have many issues. It is best to decide which issues are within your ability to repair, how important are those issues, and how much time and money are you willing to invest in an old boat.
Inspecting the Aging Sailboat by Don Casey would be a worthwhile investment. It will help you determine what to look at and which issues are really issues worth worrying about.
Ah interesting. So you guys don't think the inside gap came apart from the plywood? The texture on both sides looks like it was once laminated against the core. If it did break feee, it left a huge void.
But if this is by design it's certainly not as scary as it looks.
But if this is by design it's certainly not as scary as it looks.
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From what we can see in the pictures, which is very little and inconclusive, it does look like the outer layer detached from the plywood core. It is hard to tell about the inner liner.
That said, my inside liner is fully detached with about a 3/4" gap between the core and the inner liner. At the windows, the gap has a filler, but for the most part, the liner is separate. It's hollow behind it when tapping on the inside surface.
That said, my inside liner is fully detached with about a 3/4" gap between the core and the inner liner. At the windows, the gap has a filler, but for the most part, the liner is separate. It's hollow behind it when tapping on the inside surface.
On my boat (O’Day 322), the interior liner is clearly distinguishable from the fiberglass deck. The interior of the deck looks like fiberglass (you can see the glass fabric and epoxy).
I cannot tell from the photos...is the underside of the plywood just that..plywood? Or is it covered with fiberglass? And then there is a liner under that?
What is that hole for anyway?
Greg
I cannot tell from the photos...is the underside of the plywood just that..plywood? Or is it covered with fiberglass? And then there is a liner under that?
What is that hole for anyway?
Greg
I had a Catalina 27 with
on my old boat, a 1977 Catalina 27, the head liner was separate moulded component, . It was joined to the underside of the deck with thickened resin, I presume whilst both were upside down, and there were many gaps in many places.
I patched holes in the cockpit forward wall, much the same place as your pictures, and it looked very similar.
When many boats are built there are 4 major components, the hull, the deck, the headliner, and the pan. The hull is built and fittings are installed, then the pan is put in place. This is where all the interior fittings are, the settee, the cabin sole, the galley and head fixtures. Then any woodwork, like bulkheads are installed. Finally the headliner and the deck are set on top. There is almost always a gap between the top of the headliner and the bottom of the deck, the unseen surfaces are raw fiberglass and look ugly. There may be gobs of thickened resin in place between the deck and the headliner to hold every thing together. There may also be gobs of thickened resin between the interior pan and the hull, again to hold everything together. The hull, deck, headliner, and pan are all joined at some point, along the hull deck joint. There are probably variations on this process depending on the builder, however, they are all basically the same.
On your boat, the gap between the interior pan and the deck is to be expected. The separation between the plywood and the exterior skin is not by design the two pieces should be epoxied together. If the repair is not done, the boat probably won't sink. This is a peace of mind repair that will use $3 of a good quality thickened epoxy.
Very helpful.
The hole is where the depth gauge is installed. It was just loosely hanging there and I just pulled it out. Needs to be re-mounted. Luckily, the entire area is shielded by a bimini and I'm told it has always been under cover.
I checked on a few more things today - and while I'm certainly not an expert... but the floor around the steering pedestal seems to have a problem with the core. When I knock on it, the vibration travels a long way along the fiberglass and makes a hollow sound. Also, the caulking around the pedestal is cracked and clearly needs replacement. I've seen a few videos of this repair and it's not a simple one. I'm weighting on moving forward with the purchase knowing that I may have to live with this.
The floor isn't soft and supports my weight.
The hole is where the depth gauge is installed. It was just loosely hanging there and I just pulled it out. Needs to be re-mounted. Luckily, the entire area is shielded by a bimini and I'm told it has always been under cover.
I checked on a few more things today - and while I'm certainly not an expert... but the floor around the steering pedestal seems to have a problem with the core. When I knock on it, the vibration travels a long way along the fiberglass and makes a hollow sound. Also, the caulking around the pedestal is cracked and clearly needs replacement. I've seen a few videos of this repair and it's not a simple one. I'm weighting on moving forward with the purchase knowing that I may have to live with this.
The floor isn't soft and supports my weight.
Neither of those surfaces is the hull. There is usually a gap between the deck and cabin liners at the bulkhead and even the overhead where the cabin liner is solid. What you are really wondering is whether there is deck delamination. That is not indicated here. You have the outer shell, the bulkhead plywood, and the inner liner. The bulkhead is not always bonded directly to either. Thus, you have the gaps.
This appears it was made that way. Outer skin is one thickness of fiberglass. Inner hull liner is one fiberglass panel. The wood in the center was separate and is probably just there as a spacer. It’s not a problem. Mount your instrument in the hole and don’t fret about it.
If the core is wet, the sound will be dull, kind of a thud. A dry core has a sharp clear sound.
Recoring a deck is a simple if not time consuming task, remove the skin, dig out the old core, put in the new core and lay up a new skin. Put on some anti-skid.
Rebedding a pedestal is not a particularly challenging technically, but it does involve multiple steps and one repair often leads to another... the joy of old boats.
There is no core below the waterline. Every hull has moisture in it, and depending on the relative humidity where the boat is, that moisture may or may not dry. If the core is balsa, then maybe it's an issue. Those pictures are not the hull, as mentioned before and there is very little need for the kind of structural density that would be required in the hull. Those voids should be filled though, as allowing water in there is not a great idea.