New Chartplotters and Features

Sep 29, 2008
1,928
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Saw in some articles (Cruising World and MSN) about some of the new chartplotter features. I see that some are including Automated Identification of Ship (AIS), connections to smartphones and Augmented Reality (AR). Was actually talking to the Admiral about these and she stated those would be nice features to have on our next chartplotter. Here is one description that was interesting, but I never heard of this brand ONWA as well as how good the K-Chart base map is.

"If you’re seeking an easy-to-use, GPS-enabled chart plotter that also offers AIS capabilities, ONWA’s new KP-39A could be your ticket. The KP-39A ($340) uses a 50-channel GPS receiver plus a 7-inch color LCD display and a Class B AIS transponder. This NMEA 0183-compatable plotter can store up to 1,200 waypoints and 30 routes, and comes preloaded with ONWA’s proprietary K-chart base map and slots for external C-Map Max cartography. The plotter has IPX5 weatherproof protection and various onboard alarms, including audible warnings for cross-track error, AIS and anchor drift. The KP-39A ships with an external GPS antenna and a 13-foot cable."

Any thoughts on the new stuff?
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,324
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Ray, The unit does not appear to support NMEA 2000 and only supports NMEA 0183, that is now 30 year old network technology. Also the proprietary charts are a concern.

NMEA is (finally) about to implement an ethernet protocol. The problem with 0183 and 2000, as I understand it, are the limits in band width. NMEA 2000 is better than 0183 in both bandwidth and ease of installation, but both are inferior to an ethernet protocol.

Aside from the geopolitical issues of buying from China, I would not be interested in purchasing equipment that is based on 30 year old technology.
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Looks like a mixed bag of pros and cons with that model. As dlochner points out NMEA0183 is well outdated at this point and will limit your options to integrate other instruments like wind and speed/depth transducers. It will also probably limit your ability to integrate with smartphone apps, at least without additional hardware. The IPX5 rating is also not as durable as the IPX7 that I'd like to see given its intended purpose. I've never heard of K-Chart, but I guess in the worst case you could just buy a CMAP assuming it's really compatible.

On the good side, the built-in AIS transponder, if it works as advertised, is a unique feature to have built into the chartplotter. Usually that would require connectivity to a separate transponder, and at the price of the unit that could be worth the cost in itself. If it works as advertised.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Not heard of K-Charts their accuracy or cost. I agree with @Davidasailor26 not having N2K is a deal killer for me. And how many 0183 in and out channels will you have? You’ll need a bunch or a 0183 mux.

Les
 
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Sep 29, 2008
1,928
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Doug, I suspected that chartplotter was from China so it is out for me as well. But I do like the idea of having AIS built in and the Raymarine stuff where they are integrating in a FLIR camera view with Augmented Reality is pretty cool. Admirals first comment when I mentioned the AR is that it would be really nice to see the view of where those unlit buoys are at night. I used to have an android app the USCG actually sponsored the development that would overlay nautical features over the camera view (pretty cool but can't find it); it looks like Raymarine has an app that does something like that http://www.raymarine.com/view/blog/news/details/?ID=15032386189 but I am not sure what the WiFish thing is. The Raymarine setup is slick buy it is a multi thousand set up ($500+ for camera, $2000+ for MFD and stabilization thing $600).
https://www.saltwatersportsman.com/new-marine-electronics-2019#page-3.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,324
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Good call. They probably do final assembly there from Chinese subassemblys to comply with some NAFTA favorable Tariffing.
No doubt. And there are very few things that are sourced completely from one country or region.

With all the press tariffs have been getting recently, some of the stories are really interesting as products are engineered to avoid tariffs or take advantage of loopholes. A couple of examples, apparently there are large tariffs on trucks imported from Europe, but not passenger vans. Ford makes a line of dual purpose vans some of which are imported to the US. In order to get around the tariffs, they import the vans with with cheap bench seats and windows. Once the vans get here and pass customs, the seats come out and the glass side windows get replaced with metal panels.

I think it was Columbia Clothing that imports shoes with a thin fabric covering the soles. The tariff on rubber soled shoes is much higher than fabric soled shoes so they apply a thin fabric coating to the sole, and voila! the tariff is reduced and the fabric quickly wears off to reveal a rubber soled shoe.

There has to be a simpler more efficient way to do this. But then again think about all the jobs tariff engineering creates.
 
Sep 11, 2015
147
Hunter 31 Marina del Rey
I would not be so concerned with 0183 only. It depends if your instruments are nmea 2000 or nmea 0183. There are pro's and con's. Nmea 0183 is perfectly adequate for basic instruments, speed, depth, compass, AIS, autopilot. The big benefit is that it is very easy to interface to a computer and once you go the PC route, there is so much flexibility and functionality.

My advice would be to choose your MFD based on the high bandwidth instruments, radar and sonar. Radar you can just as easily do on a PC, sonar is deeply proprietary but also, quite cheap overall. Then you build the system around the MFD/radar combo. In the case of the unit above, I see no benefit. If you do not want radar, just go with a Garmin 44dv or similar unit, $200, with plenty of functionality. If you are willing to add a PC, that would be great because you can display amazing weather overlays that are not possible with any modern chartplotters. If you need nmea 2000, then, well I hate nmea 2000.

SV Pizzazz
 
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May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
If you are willing to add a PC, that would be great because you can display amazing weather overlays that are not possible with any modern chartplotters
New Navico plotters (at least the Simrad NSS and B&G Zeus lines) can show Grib file overlays as well.

If you need nmea 2000, then, well I hate nmea 2000.
To each their own I guess. I'm glad I don't need to worry about the complications of 0183, like the RX/TX relationships between devices and baud rates. If you need 0183 output from a 2000 network to a PC there are adapters for that, and many plotters will give an 0183 output over Ethernet or wifi anyway.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
I would not be so concerned with 0183 only. It depends if your instruments are nmea 2000 or nmea 0183. There are pro's and con's. Nmea 0183 is perfectly adequate for basic instruments, speed, depth, compass, AIS, autopilot

SV Pizzazz
I respectfully disagree. Remember you can only have one talker on a 0183 network so depth, wind, water speed, compass, AIS all want/need their own 0183 network. VHF, and AP could be listen only from the chart plotter. How many CP today have 5 in 1 out, 0183 based networks??? Does this one??? And forget about having MFD’s like the i70s that can display wind one second and engine parameters the next. You would need dedicated screen for Radar, and probably for depth, wind, water speed, do you have the real estate?? To me the big key in N2K and following Ethernet is not bandwidth, but multi-talker/multi-listener on the same wire. Do I really need updates more than 10 times a second for the data I’m getting now. Unless you start pumping video N2K has the bandwidth.

Les
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
$340 for a class B transponder? That is a good price, and they throw in a chart plotter! Sounds too good to be true.
 

BarryL

.
May 21, 2004
1,000
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hey,

Just a few comments from me:
1. IMHO a 5” screen is too small for a plotter w ais display. A 7” would be my minimum size. The KP39 has the 7”.
2. I definitely want NMEA 2000 so i can easily integrate wind, depth, boat speed, auto pilot information into the plotter.
3. Any new plotter should have WiFi capability for mirroring the display on a phone or tablet.
4. The price for a plotter and transceiver is way cheap. Might make sense to get the 5” just for the ais broadcast

Barry
 
Sep 11, 2015
147
Hunter 31 Marina del Rey
I respectfully disagree. How many CP today have 5 in 1 out, 0183 based networks???
I have a different view. NMEA 0183 is a simple serial port connection. Cables and connectors cost pennies. You can have NMEA multiplexers where needed (e.g. the 4-1 mentioned above) for $120 on Amazon that have nmea, seatalk and wifi, all integrated and configurable. You can use any wires and splice them anyway. The bandwidth is sufficient and so on.
https://www.amazon.com/NMEA-Multipl...eway&sprefix=nmea+mul,aps,253&sr=8-1-fkmrnull


NMEA2000 came along from the auto world with the purpose of adding engine data to chart plotters which turned out to be a waste of time and effort (there is not enough real estate to show engine data on the chartplotter). It cannot do video, you cannot do sonar data, weather updates are slow and the connectors cost a fortune. Ethernet is much better suited for the boat environment.

But we are drifting away.
 
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Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Well...… I perused the manuals and uh, the display screens look pretty un exciting... in other words, it looks dated. I'd keep looking and learn more about what modern chartplotters a capable of....
 
Sep 11, 2015
147
Hunter 31 Marina del Rey
Just read about OneNet. I believe it is very unlikely to become wide spread in the recreational boating world. It has security that is not needed on a boat, it encrypts the messages (no plain text reading), it allows only certified devices/apps to connect. Read vendor lock-in.

Nmea 0183 will still rule the boating world, many years from now. Plain Ethernet from the computer world allows integration of radar, TV, cameras, weather, other computers, satellite messaging. Nmea2000 and OneNet are trying to close the system without offering any benefits to users. Just say no.

By the way, I have Nmea2000 on the boat, I use it only to connect a remote Raymarine keyboard to the chartplotter. For specific applications like this, it may make sense. Otherwise, avoid if possible.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,324
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Just read about OneNet. I believe it is very unlikely to become wide spread in the recreational boating world. It has security that is not needed on a boat, it encrypts the messages (no plain text reading), it allows only certified devices/apps to connect. Read vendor lock-in.

Nmea 0183 will still rule the boating world, many years from now. Plain Ethernet from the computer world allows integration of radar, TV, cameras, weather, other computers, satellite messaging. Nmea2000 and OneNet are trying to close the system without offering any benefits to users. Just say no.

By the way, I have Nmea2000 on the boat, I use it only to connect a remote Raymarine keyboard to the chartplotter. For specific applications like this, it may make sense. Otherwise, avoid if possible.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. 30 years ago (in the early days of NMEA 0183) who would have thought that microwaves would be found on sailboats. Now, they are pretty common on new boats.

With networking, transmission speed, bandwidth, and ease of installation will rule the day. Sonar and radar require much faster transmission speed and bandwidth than N2k can support. Wifi connectivity is pretty standard on new devices, and that uses an ethernet protocol. Larger recreational boats will have video monitoring of different parts of the boat. My chart plotter (Zeus2) already supports video, albeit, through a separate cable. Certainly Flir wants to sell more cameras and an ethernet based network will broaden their market. Instead of 4 or more connections on the back of an MFD, there will be one or two, power and ethernet.

Initially the OneNet devices will be pricey, however, like all technology with time the price goes down and the technology improves. Small start ups are already producing NMEA to Ethernet bridges and my MFD is home and connected to my home network via ethernet.

For many sailors all of this will be overkill, however, simplicity and familiarity for the end user and increased capacity will drive the market.