Documentation question

May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
In the process of applying for documentation for a boat not previously documented. CG-1258, section M part 4 reads:

THE VESSEL IS
-NOT TITLED UNDER A STATE OR
-TITLED UNDER THE LAWS OF ________________.

I am unclear as to whether this is asking about the current situation or future situation? I have a title signed over to me from the state the boat is coming from but will not have a Wisconsin title, only Wisconsin registration once the documentation is complete.

Calls to the NVDC have resulted in a circular cue of recorded messages.

Thanks for any assistance.

Scott
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
My interpretation is that the boat is still titled in its prior state, although ownership has been transferred to you. USCG is looking for a clear record of ownership, the title provides that.

Unless you need to turn in the title to Wisconsin, don't throw it away as it may be needed by the next owner.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
The current situation at the time of documentation. Out of curiosity, how many former owners has this boat had? I believe, unless the process has changed, that you will need a signed release from each and every one before they will document a used vessel.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
If there was ever a situation where a documentation service would be worth the fee, this is it. You won’t have a state title, but there was one on the boat. Need to address that. You are creating USCG Documentation on an old boat with no Documentation to transfer, so there will need to be a chain of custody narrative.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,990
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Yeah, that’s precisely what was about to suggest. When I bought the boat I have now, it was an undocumented, previously owned vessel that had been repossessed.:yikes: So, I went to a service to get the job done. BTW, that word is queue, not cue.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Copy EVERYTHING, especially the old title and registration. My thinking is, unless you get a title in your state (or registration if your state does not do titles on boats), you are trying to document a boat that does not belong to you. The proof is on your paperwork, not what you say. My 2 cents.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
The question has nothing to do with Wisconsin registration requirements (nor the registration requirements of any other state either) because registration has nothing to do with ownership.

The question asked in Section M is about the present state of ownership. Essentially it says "show us the state title papers that transfer ownership of the vessel to you - including photo copies ." That means you make a copy of the papers the owner signed in order to transfer ownership of the boat when you bought it - usually the state title endorsed showing the transfer or maybe the title and a bill of sale.

When issued the federal Certificate of Documentation is now your title and the one you got from the prior owner becomes sort of irrelevant. So for example if you (your someone you sold the boat to in the future) wanted a title issued by Wisconsin instead of the federal Certificate of Documentation you must surrender the Certificate of Documentation to the Coast Guard - this is called Deletion from Documentation.

Anyway - just attach a photo copy of the title signed over to you by the prior owner and do not forget to pay your money and the CG 5397 if the vessel has not been documented before.

Charles

p.s. Liens (prior state recorded mortgages) are separate matters One assumes the present state title does not show there is any lender involved.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Liens (prior state recorded mortgages) are separate matters One assumes the present state title does not show there is any lender involved.
Or that you have a copy of the lien release from the prior owner.

The USCG now does 5 year documentation. The cost is 5x the annual fee, which doesn't represent a savings, however, it does protection from any fee increases over the next 5 years. From what I've heard, it may not be possible to do this online yet. I'll be renewing my documentation soon, so I'll find out.
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/2291786
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
The question has nothing to do with Wisconsin registration requirements (nor the registration requirements of any other state either) because registration has nothing to do with ownership.

The question asked in Section M is about the present state of ownership. Essentially it says "show us the state title papers that transfer ownership of the vessel to you - including photo copies ." That means you make a copy of the papers the owner signed in order to transfer ownership of the boat when you bought it - usually the state title endorsed showing the transfer or maybe the title and a bill of sale.

When issued the federal Certificate of Documentation is now your title and the one you got from the prior owner becomes sort of irrelevant. So for example if you (your someone you sold the boat to in the future) wanted a title issued by Wisconsin instead of the federal Certificate of Documentation you must surrender the Certificate of Documentation to the Coast Guard - this is called Deletion from Documentation.

Anyway - just attach a photo copy of the title signed over to you by the prior owner and do not forget to pay your money and the CG 5397 if the vessel has not been documented before.

Charles

p.s. Liens (prior state recorded mortgages) are separate matters One assumes the present state title does not show there is any lender involved.
Thanks Charles, that makes sense. I do have a signed over title as well as a form from the bank stating that the lien is cleared.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
You are welcome. Send them photo copies of everything. Your fee is not refundable so be sure the CG 5397 goes too - you need to be 5 net tons (tons here are not physical mass/weight by the way). Otherwise you have to do it all over again and pay all over again too.

Charles
 
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May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
You are welcome. Send them photo copies of everything. Your fee is not refundable so be sure the CG 5397 goes too - you need to be 5 net tons (tons here are not physical mass/weight by the way). Otherwise you have to do it all over again and pay all over again too.

Charles
Thanks - I'm familiar with the tons as volume issue. I am curious though with a production boat is the 5397 needed since there is a history of other documented boats of the same model?
 
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Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Yes - the 1258 is very not clear on this. So here is how to handle it assuming your specific boat was not previously documented.

To verify you qualify on size (this is a simplified approach) you would need the builder certificate or a 5397. The 5397 is super easy to fill out and attach. Cheap too since you do it yourself.

In short - use the Charles Erwin two part rule for government interaction: If you give them more than they need/want they will have no basis to reject your application. If you omit something you are in for more work and more fees.

Charles
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I am curious though with a production boat is the 5397 needed since there is a history of other documented boats of the same model?
Without a builders certificate the documentation will not include information about the boat and who built it. The documentation is specific to each boat and not to a class of boats, even with the HIN identifying the builder.
 
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