O'Day 35 Rudder Question

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
I need to drop the rudder on my 35 for repairs but have run into a problem: all the bolts for the quadrant came off easily and I can slide a paint scraper in between the halves but I am unable to budge the pin that goes through the quadrant and the center of the rudder tube. On my boat, it is a stainless pin with one tapered end and there were hose clamps at either end to prevent it from moving. I raised the rudder a bit with a jack to take pressure of the pin and gave it a few wacks with a hammer and it didn't budge, I could see the end of the pin didn't really like the hammer wacks so I stopped and sprayed on some PB Blaster and moved on to another project. Has anyone encountered this? Is there any trick to getting that pin out? If PB Blaster doesn't loosen it up, I may apply some heat (judiciously).
Thanks.
 
Jan 5, 2017
2,263
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
Taper pins are normally softer steel than the shaft they go through. PB Blaster and heat are a start. Only hit the small end, sometimes a little twist helps ( vise grips on the big end) I've resorted to drilling them out and reaming with a taper ream.
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
Our 34 had a bolt through the rudder shaft, silly question but are you certain it is a pin?
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
My last boat (Catalina) had a bolt as well, it sure looks like a pin to me - smooth with a taper at one end.
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
Thanks, the small end is tough to get to but I'll make sure I hit that end, brass hammer this time. Heat is pretty persuasive if I can keep it away from the fiberglass.
 
Aug 17, 2010
311
Oday 35 Barrington
If I recall correctly, my 35 had a bolt going through it as well. To remove the bolt (again, as I recall) I left the nut on the last few threads of the bolt and persuaded it with a hammer. Once it moved enough that the bolt was against the quadrant, I put a socket wrench on the bolt and backed it out.
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
My 35 has a bolt also. I had a yard remove it when I replaced my rudder, no idea what technique they used. What year is your boat?
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
It's an '87, sail No. 88. Maybe somebody replaced it - it had hose clamps on either end to keep it from sliding out, effective but probably not what the factory would do. If I can't get it to budge I'll see what the yard says, they'll probably be able to press it out.
 

BarryL

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May 21, 2004
1,000
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Mine had a bolt too.

See the pic

Note there are beatings above and below the quadrant. AND THEY ARE NOT THE SAME SIZE (Don't ask me how I know). Make sure you note the upper and lower.
 

Attachments

Jan 19, 2010
1,169
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
A pair of vise grips like the one above are great for enticing stuck pins and bolts to move. Use a piece of flat stock to push against. The forks will allow the head to pass between....
 
Aug 17, 2010
311
Oday 35 Barrington
I found this relevant test in an old post of mine in another forum;
In order to remove it, I had to dig a 2' hole under the rudder, and then pound the retaining bolt out of the quadrant, and then I had to loosen all the bolts that hold both halves of the quadrant together (4 9/16" and 2 7/16"). I then pried both halves apart with screwdrivers. The retaining bolt is a 3/8", 16 thread, stainless steel cap head screw, that is 8" long. I mushroomed the end, and buggered the threads while trying to remove it. New one is on order.
 

jcb2

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Jun 5, 2012
51
Oday 31 Bayville, NJ
Whenever I face a stuck bolt or pin, I use this method to loosen it. First I use a toothbrush-size stainless steel wire brush and thoroughly clean away any possible corrosion at the joints (where the pin and rudder stock touch). Then I take a 90 degree pick tool and use the point to scrape the joints removing any corrosion/dirt that the brush missed. Then I spray "Aerokroil" until it soaks into and al around the joint. Because it's a little more expensive than WD40 or PB Blaster, most places don't sell it. Contractor suppliers may have it and you can always buy it on Amazon. I let it sit for at least a few hours then spray some more before tapping the end to break it loose. The stuff is amazing and worth the money( ~$18/can). Lifting the rudder weight to take off the shear load is critical to minimize friction. Usually a good quick tap will break it loose.
I caution anyone that advocates using a torch that it is very dangerous in a combustible boat especially when being used by a person in a tight space. If you really need heat, use an electric heat gun instead to heat the rudder stock, not the pin or bolt. That way the the stock expands faster than the pin/bolt. keep moving the heat gun to evenly heat all around the stock so it expands uniformly. Then strike when it's hot. Good luck with it.
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
Thanks for all the great advice - I plan on having a go at it this weekend if the polar vortex subsides.
 
Jan 28, 2017
26
O'Day 34 Suttons Bay
Any update on the pin extraction? I'm dying to know if there is a bearing or seal in the fiberglass tube above the radial drive after the rudder stock is removed. I want to know if I can remove a couple of inches of the upper tube to attach a tiller arm for an EV200 autopilot I picked up (before I knew the rudder stock wasn't readily accessible!).
View media item 26417
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
The conclusion: I couldn't get the pin to budge the second time around either - heating is futile, too much mass around it. So I asked the yard to take a look. Over the weekend, I built a big clamp out of 1/4" stock and 3/4" rod that I'm sure would have moved it but when I called the yard on Monday, they already had it out.
Benjammin: I'm going down this weekend to bring the rudder home (the real project), I'll check out the tube above the quadrant - BarryL mentioned some "experience" with the upper and lower bearings, maybe he knows where the upper one is located. I will be replacing the bearings because everything's apart so I'm curious as well.
 
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Likes: Benjammin

jcb2

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Jun 5, 2012
51
Oday 31 Bayville, NJ
Any update on the pin extraction? I'm dying to know if there is a bearing or seal in the fiberglass tube above the radial drive after the rudder stock is removed. I want to know if I can remove a couple of inches of the upper tube to attach a tiller arm for an EV200 autopilot I picked up (before I knew the rudder stock wasn't readily accessible!).
View media item 26417
Benjamin, Do the directions say to attach to the stock? What you show as a “radial drive” is typically called the steering quadrant. It seems to me that one could attach a ball-head bolt to either a point on the quadrant or something bolted to it and extended out the length recommended by Raymarine. I just added a rudder reference to my quadrant in this kind of assembly. I would caution you about cutting the fiberglass guide tube that covers the stock as it could lead to weak support and leakage. Download the documents from Raymarine for installation directions.
 
Jan 28, 2017
26
O'Day 34 Suttons Bay
This is a subject of some debate. Some have advocated attaching to the radial drive (the name of this Edson steering system) while others feel this compromises the primary steering system (ie break the radial drive and you’re totally screwed).
I’ve asked folks at Raymarine, Edson and even Rudy at D&R with no one offering an opinion on the structural design of the upper tube. I just sent an email to the design firm (crhunt.com) to see if they have engineering information that could help resolve the question. How hard can it be to locate 4 decade old engineering documents?!
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
When I contacted them about the possibility of getting line drawings for our 34, they said all of that information had gone to the Mystic Seaport Museum. Many attempts to contact Mystic Seaport about the possibility of obtaining a copy yielded no response whatsover.
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
Don't hold your breath waiting for Mystic Seaport. In the hope of making a half model I contacted them two years ago. They acknowledge my request and wrote I would get the charge if they got the time to find the drawings. Never heard from them again. I fear much of the history of the ODay story is lost.