What do you wish you'd known?

[CDye]

I've dreamt of owning and sailing my own boat, and specifically a Catalina for the last 11 years. I was reasonably sure that the combination of life, finances, children, etc. were going to continue to cause that dream to be deferred for at least another 10 years, but last week a good friend of mine presented an opportunity.

A family friend is in the process of selling a Catalina 30 (1986, MKII) that he'd purchased about 2 years previous. He lives in WV, and just isn't making it down as often as he'd planned to sail. While he'd listed the boat for about $19k, he's willing to sell it to us for $5k. This would allow me to purchase the boat I've fantasized about for roughly 10% of what I'd anticipated. Finances aren't really my concern here. I have a pretty good spreadsheet on costs of ownership, including marina costs, insurance, taxes/registration, towing insurance, and liberal estimates for maintenance, etc.

What I'm most interested in hearing from you fine folks are all of the things you WISH you'd known before purchasing a boat, and specifically a Catalina. I'm a novice (NOVICE) sailor and have the plans in place to take appropriate classes/lessons to be safe on the water, but I'm finding fewer resources for how to make sure I'm not screwing up as a boat owner.

The boat was surveyed in the spring, and the survey will apparently be made available to us.
Engine maintenance twice yearly, and it was just winterized yesterday. It also got a new tach, new hoses, and had the heat exchanger cleaned. The chain plates were also recently re-laminated.

Other than the "Catalina Smile" and the mast-post compression issues (is that really a significant deal?) what else can I look for as I crawl through with a flashlight on Saturday? What else would give you pause before pulling the trigger on something like this? What do you wish someone had communicated to you before you bought your first boat, or first Catalina?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Read through www.catalina30.com and ask at https://groups.io/g/catalina30

You also didn't say what engine. 1986 most likely an M25. Check the alternator bracket.

Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Series Universal Engine Information on the Internet, plus some M35, too

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

 

[Parsons]

I've heard others complain about costs, so that is the first concern. I'm like you and made a big spreadsheet of annual costs, and a separate project list, so I knew what I was getting into. If you can't do it yourself, find a trustworthy mechanic / fiberglass artist, etc. and find their rates. The good ones will also estimate hours for you as they've done the job so many times they know what it will take.

The advice that I wish I had gotten is about people, not boats. I was lucky to stumble into a group of experienced sailors in my little yacht club that gave me good advice. SBO, and other forums, are also good for general information, but not local knowledge. As a result, I have not gone wrong in selecting equipment, maintaining the boat, or choosing a mechanic to do the stuff I did not want to do. I would wander down the dock or bar, and mention to a grey-haired captain that I'm thinking about changing out my ... and sit back to listen to excellent advice. It's saved me a fortune. A belated thanks to all those on SBO that saved my a$$ on occasion.

The other advice is use the hell out of the new toy! Many boats sit tied to the dock, accumulating barnacles and dust. You're paying a hefty price for every hour you will own her, so make the most of it. Spend time aboard going over the systems, sail in the evenings after work, go for cruises. The more you use it, the less it costs per-hour.

 

[CDye]

Read through www.catalina30.com and ask at https://groups.io/g/catalina30

You also didn't say what engine. 1986 most likely an M25. Check the alternator bracket.

Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Series Universal Engine Information on the Internet, plus some M35, too

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

Thanks! I think it's an original M25, but I haven't been able to get in there myself to look at it yet. Your write-up on the bracket swap sounds like quite the adventure.

 

[Meriachee]

My immediate (SBO Related) response is just do it. If you find that it doesn't meet your need, for the difference in what you spent vs what you can sell it for, you're bucks up towards another one.

 

[JRT]

$5k for a C30 that sounds like it has been at least maintained and used somewhat? I'd jump on it if it was in my lake / river area for sure. I also got a 1/2 off good deal price on my O'Day 25 and checked the big issues and fixed the others. What I wish I understood better was sail condition is a big factor in comfort and handling of a old boat. I though my old sails 'in good condition' where fine but after buying new sails this year I know better. So any boat I consider now will be with a plus for new sails and a deduction for 'original sails in great shape' on 30+ year old boats!

 

[CDye]

That's new to me John. Do you mean it in the sense that it's easier to properly trim (and keep trimmed) new sails? Does that have more to do with the quality of the sails themselves, or the sheets, cleats, winches, etc?

 

[JRT]

Comfort and control is easier with good sails. Old sails are usually baggy and stretched out. I really didn't understand this at all and thought it was just crazy 'performance' stuff and mine worked fine based on some light wind sails. But I had issues when the wind picked up and found the boat sort of fought me and I struggled to make headway with them. This year we started off with a very nice North Sail Main and a new Precision 115 jib. We sailed in higher winds and had excellent control and no round up or control issues. We also took lessons with a club instructor and I knew enough but she really got my focused on my problem areas and also really trained my daughter. A few boats have popped up local and honestly I'd like to upgrade but I also know I need to factor new sails for both of them because they are 'original' from 1987 and 1995!

 

[Roland5048]

Do you mean it in the sense that it's easier to properly trim (and keep trimmed) new sails? Does that have more to do with the quality of the sails themselves

Yes. Replaced my old but still serviceable main last year with a brand new, built for the boat, main. Like day and night as far as power and trimming. Now, trying to furl that stiff sail so it lies neatly on the boom and still fit under the cover, well... that's another story.

 

[ToddL214]

The best thing I did with my first boat was to set a goal from the outset of how many times per month I felt like I wanted to be on the boat for what I was spending, (in my case including maintenance, projects or even just to hang out; it was a boat in a slip year around on a Texas lake). Once this is set in your mind, get a small page spiral notebook and make a note not to exceed one page in length on what you did during each trip to the boat. After the first year I was so far ahead of my goal and had enjoyed the experience so much I gave up the journal except to re-read/re-live some of the fun of that first year. I've sold the Catalina 22 and 30 and now have a Catalina 310.
Go for it!
http://www.toddsblog.net/Most_Recent_Entries/Entries/2016/2/11_83_,_61_,_31_Feet_of_Catalina.html

 

[Kings Gambit]

One hears tell of such things, but until you live it you won’t really appreciate it. The amount of up-keep a boat requires is something that a boat owner and his family need to know about and accept b/f diving in. It’s a lot. If it’s broken you basically have to fix it relatively soon, or stay home—as many eventually do. Unfixed things can add up quickly. You can fix only a few things in a reasonable stretch of time, but a boat’s deterioration and its need for maintenance is daily & relentless. A spread sheet won’t help you much with that. Most folks who own a boat “on a budget” don’t do all that much sailing.

 

[jeepbluetj]

That price for a '86 is a steal unless it's absolute junk. Just buy the boat. The more you use it the better it'll work.
It's a boat - you'll have plenty of stuff to fix. But that's a steal unless it's been sunk, bad engine, bad rig, and moldy sails. If it's in decent shape - buy that boat.

Big costs you make occur after purchase:
* Engine - what happens if if just blows up one day - you either unload the boat without an engine or you're shelling out the $$$ to fix or replace. A new beta is almost $10K for just the engine. (Would still be worth it if the boat was otherwise in decent shape... imho)
* Sails - I spent less than $3500 for a new jib and new main for my C-30. But it's some $$$.
* Rig - rigs get old, and the standing rigging needs to be replaced. It's expensive.
* Everything else. A thousand here, a thousand there, it'll end up being real money eventually.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks! I think it's an original M25, but I haven't been able to get in there myself to look at it yet. Your write-up on the bracket swap sounds like quite the adventure.

It was.
You should also read this, applied to your boat, we have the same systems.

Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

 

[CDye]

If folks are still here:

Have the results of a boat survey. Only one real concern:

The boat is in pretty fantastic shape overall. New roller-furling jib, sails are in good shape, rudder is in good shape, electrics and water systems are good, chain plates had some minor corrosion, but were relaminated, and the diesel was just serviced with all new belts/hoses installed, and a replacement of the heat exchanger.

BUT:
The surveyor also documented “numerous small to moderate (<1”)” Hull blisters.

From what I’ve read, this isn’t exactly unexpected in a 32yo boat, and in the short-term would have very minor effects on performance. However, damage will be ongoing until it’s corrected, and it could make resale more difficult.

Time is always a factor, but I’m young and handy, and so are my potential co-owners. It seems like with a relatively competent YouTube guide and a grinder, that we could likely fix this on our own over a long weekend if we proceed with the purchase. Does that seem correct to everyone else? Or is this something that would make you walk away?

 

[JRT]

I believe the normal process on these is to grind them all open and let drain for an extended time before coating.

 

[Parsons]

So your new boat has acne! I've not experienced it, but from reading, it's an annoyance but hardly a deal-killer. You're buying a 30-foot sailboat for single-digit money. How much are you worried about resale value? You'll spend more in a few years on dockage, insurance, and beer than the purchase price. As you say, read about blister repair here, watch a few videos, buy really good-quality tools, and go to it. As has been said here many times, you don't really own a boat until you start drilling holes in it!

 

[CDye]

I believe the normal process on these is to grind them all open and let drain for an extended time before coating.

I think it depends on the size/depth of the blisters. The key seems to be making sure that all of the moisture is gone before you re-lam the fiberglass and apply paint/gel coat

 

[jssailem]

Well Hi @CDye and welcome to the forum of interested and interesting sailors.
My first impression is that your chasing a boat because of cost. Possible friend giving you a "DEAL". And that you feel the need for "partners" in order to accomplish the experience.
Some or all of these conditions have cause others here and on other web sites to have joy and misery over such decisions.
But what the hey... This is life.

Blisters. Not the end of the world. Here is what I found to be one of the better resources about blisters on a boat hull.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/BlisterRepairFail.htm
I pulled my boat for the first time last January. It did not look too bad... at first after the bottom was spray washed.

But as we let it dry and started to prep the bottom for painting...

You need to dry out the hull. Inspect the blisters to be sure (as in my case) they are only in the surface layer (gel coat) not into the hulls fiberglass. Yes they will come back, but this is not a racing boat. Yes they will need further attention but not immediately. We dried the boat for 3 months. Filled in the problem areas with epoxy. Sanded the hull fair. applied a barrier coat then pained the boat bottom and back in the water to sail.

As you said your young and this is a dream. Dreams are not achieved with out a little elbow grease expended. Just be sure to have your ambitions measured. Your buying an older boat designed to coastal cruise, not an elite racing hull to cross oceans.

 

[kampuniform]

The experience of owning a boat has been tangential to my expectations/dreams...negatively.

1.Unless you are a zealot, your boat will spend 99.9% of its time tethered to a dock. Think about this fact long and hard before investing your time and money into the fool's errand that is boating.
2. It was a nightmare finding the right boat that wasn't an utter wreck, and your surveyor has to possess god-like characteristics to truly and fully flesh-out all of your intended boat's deficiencies. For the most part, surveying is the ultimate comic scam boaters have to endure.
3. Continuous work and money, and things go wrong all of the time. I worked continuously to address all of my boat's issues, but it doesn't take very long before you encounter a ...what the hell has gone wrong NOW!!! moment.
4. The weather is rarely congenial. In my region, it's either blowing 35, or you're motoring. I don't know how many trips were cancelled due to not wanting to face massive seas and gale force winds. I've been out in these conditions on more than a few occasions; however, within an hour, you really build quite a hatred for the sea...and your mother for giving birth to you.
5. Relationship killer. If your partner isn't calibrated precisely to your wavelength, having a boat is the perfect argument incubator.
6. Boat partnership? It's more comforting to pull your insides out through your mouth with your bare hands. Never, ever, EVER, go into a partnership with anyone over anything, at anytime...and a boat partnership is the worst case scenario.

 

[jssailem]

Sounds like your having a "Glass is half full" moment @kampuniform .