Simple LED Conversion

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Hear Hear.

Yet, the lack of true testing, doesn't mean that we should TOTALLY ignore anecdotal "evidence"
Like any claim without unbiased quality data, I'd look at this with healthy scepticism.
Very well put! This is exactly why I started this thread...to encourage feedback based on my individual testing and hopefully others on the forum. As I have said in earlier posts, I always try to look for a way to make something work, not the other way 'round and it's just not in me to do something "cause it's always been done that way". Now if I can only find that RF noise in the new NAV radio I just installed in the plane!
:dancing:
 
Last edited:
Aug 21, 2018
14
Catalina 22 Lake Waccamaw, NC / Holden Bch
Well I got my LED strip lights in and my #93 LED replacements. Went to plug them in while on the water Monday and.....NOTHING.
I'm thinking reversed wires are the culprit, but I didn't have time to mess with it, so I binned everything and will try to make adjustments in the driveway this week sometime.
Not worried about the LED interference. I sail on a 20 sq mile lake.
 

kbgunn

.
Sep 19, 2017
210
2005 Hunter 33 Lake Lewisville, TX
Well you talked me into trying the self-modified LEDs on my AquaSignal nav lights.

I couldn't find the "dimpled" endcaps so I bought the pointed ones and modified them myself.
I used a light ball peen hammer to reverse the point.

Before:


After:

Installed:

Illuminated:



$4 EZ-PZ. Thanks for the inspiration @w4swk

KBG
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
This is a great thread.
Thanks to everyone who has posted ideas/experiences with these LED conversions.
 
Sep 28, 2017
14
Catalina 22 Southeastern Pennsylvania
I recently ran into the same issue DialedN. I bought (3)led replacement bulbs at an auto fleamarket for my cabin lights. After installing only one would light. After taking the vendor's name in vain, I decided to investigate and found all 3 worked fine when I connected the bulb to a DC power supply. It turns out 2 of the 3 fixtures were wired reverse polarity, looked like it was that way from the factory. The fixture needs to be wired so the button on the bottom of the bulb is wired to the positive battery terminal, this was the black wire on my light fixtures.
 
Last edited:
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Well you talked me into trying the self-modified LEDs on my AquaSignal nav lights.

I couldn't find the "dimpled" endcaps so I bought the pointed ones and modified them myself.
I used a light ball peen hammer to reverse the point.

Before:


After:

Installed:

Illuminated:



$4 EZ-PZ. Thanks for the inspiration @w4swk

KBG
kbgunn - looks good. Do you recall what size, etc. LED you bought? I'm looking to do the same..
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
I couldn't find the "dimpled" endcaps so I bought the pointed ones and modified them myself.
I used a light ball peen hammer to reverse the point. @w4swk
KBG
Were you able to slide off the end cap to place that nice dimple? If yes, did you use something like lanacote or tef gel when replacing the end cap?
 

kbgunn

.
Sep 19, 2017
210
2005 Hunter 33 Lake Lewisville, TX
Were you able to slide off the end cap to place that nice dimple? If yes, did you use something like lanacote or tef gel when replacing the end cap?
I didn't take the end caps off. It is really thin metal. I placed the bottom point of the bulb on a solid surface and tapped lightly with the hammer. Reverse and repeat. A punch might have made a better dimple, but it was good enough with just the hammer.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
A replacement bulb for any festoon style should, at a bare minimum, emit light 360 degrees as the vibrations can cause the bulb to rotate. I have noted this on numerous conversions of festoon style bow, stern and steaming lights. On one boat the stern light was actually facing the black housing and on another the steaming/masthead light was also rated towards the inside of the light not facing out..

Keep in mind that our navigation lights need to meet the COLREGS definitions of a navigation light. This is federal law and not just for boat builders, who are actually required to use USCG "Certified" nav lights, but for us mere mortals the lights need to perform to the requirements of the federal law..

How will you know that a home made navigational light will meet the horizontal sectors, vertical sectors, color and distance specifications? If you are willing to take on that risk, that is fine, I just point it out because folks only tend to think the COLREGS is only about distance and that is simply not true.

There is a part in Rule 20 of the COLREGS that states nav lights SHALL COMPLY with Annex I of the CFR / Code of Federal Regulations (Federal Law), and many folks miss this critical section.

This is what it means, by US Federal Law and the COLREGS to be considered a "navigation light"....

From 33 CFR 84:


Colors

� 84.13 Color specification of lights
(a) The chromaticity of all navigation lights shall conform to the following standards, which lie within the boundaries of the area of the diagram specified for each color by the International Commission on Illumination (CIE), in the "Colors of Light Signals", which is incorporated by reference. It is Publication CIE No. 2.2. (TC-1.6), 1975, and is available from the Illumination Engineering Society, 345 East 47th Street, New York, NY 10017. It is also available for inspection at the Office of the Federal Register, Room 8401, 1100 L Street N.W., Washington, D.C. 20408. This incorporation by reference was approved by the Director of the Federal Register.
(b) The boundaries of the area for each color are given by indicating the corner coordinates, which are as follows:
(1) White:
x 0.525 0.525 0.452 0.310 0.310 0.443
y 0.382 0.440 0.440 0.348 0.283 0.382
(2) Green:
x 0.028 0.009 0.300 0.203
y 0.385 0.723 0.511 0.356
(3) Red:
x 0.680 0.660 0.735 0.721
y 0.320 0.320 0.265 0.259
(4) Yellow:
x 0.612 0.618 0.575 0.575
y 0.382 0.382 0.425 0.406

Intensity

� 84.15 Intensity of lights
(a) The minimum luminous intensity of lights shall be calculated by using the formula:
l = 3.43 x 106 x T x D2 x K-D
where:
I is luminous intensity in candelas under service conditions, T is threshold factor 2 x 10-7 lux, D is range of visibility (luminous range) of the light in nautical miles, K is atmospheric transmissivity. For prescribed lights the value of K shall be 0.8, corresponding to a meteorological visibility of approximately 13 nautical miles.
(b) A selection of figures derived from the formula is given in Table 84.15(b).
Table 84.15(b)
Range of visibility (luminous Minimum
range) of light in nautical luminous intensity of light
miles in candelas tor K = 0.8
D I
1 0.9
2 4.3
3 12
4 27
5 52
6 94

Horizontal Sectors

� 84.17 Horizontal sectors
(a)
(1) In the forward direction, sidelights as fitted on the vessel shall show the minimum required intensities. The intensities shall decrease to reach practical cut-off between 1 and 3 degrees outside the prescribed sectors.
(2) For sternlights and masthead lights and at 22.5 degrees abaft the beam for sidelights, the minimum required intensities shall be maintained over the arc of the horizon up to 5 degrees within the limits of the sectors prescribed in Rule 21. From 5 degrees within the prescribed sectors the intensity may decrease by 50 percent up to the prescribed limits; it shall decrease steadily to reach practical cutoff at not more than 5 degrees outside the prescribed sectors. (b) All-round lights shall be so located as not to be obscured by masts, topmasts or structures within angular sectors of more than 6 degrees, except anchor lights prescribed in Rule 30, which need not be placed at an impracticable height above the hull, and the all-round white light described in Rule 23(d), which may not be obscured at all. (c) If it is impracticable to comply with paragraph (b) of this section by exhibiting only one all-round light, two all-round lights shall be used suitably positioned or screened to appear, as far as practicable, as one light at a minimum distance of one nautical mile.

NOTE to paragraph (c): Two unscreened all-round lights that are 1.28 meters apart or less will appear as one light to the naked eye at a distance of one nautical mile.


Vertical Sectors

� 84.19 Vertical sectors
(a) The vertical sectors of electric lights as fitted, with the exception of lights on sailing vessels underway and on unmanned barges, shall ensure that:
(1) At least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from 5 degrees above to 5 degrees below the horizontal;
(2) At least 60 percent of the required minimum intensity is maintained from 7.5 degrees above to 7.5 degrees below the horizontal.
(b) In the case of sailing vessels underway the vertical sectors of electric lights as fitted shall ensure that:
(1) At least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from 5 degrees above to 5 degrees below the horizontal;
(2) At least 50 percent of the required minimum intensity is maintained from 25 degrees above to 25 degrees below the horizontal.
(c) In the case of unmanned barges the minimum required intensity of electric lights as fitted shall be maintained on the horizontal.
(d) In the case of lights other than electric lights these specifications shall be met as closely as possible.


This is what USCG / ABYC A-16 navigation lights are tested to and all nav lights "shall comply" with regardless of certification..

To see where in the COLREGS lights are defined and what those requirements are you need to look no further than Rule 20:


Rule 20 - Application


(a) Rules in this part shall be complied with in all weathers.

(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.

(c) The lights prescribed by these Rules shall, if carried, also be exhibited from sunrise to sunset in restricted visibility and may be exhibited in all other circumstances when it is deemed necessary.

(d) The Rules concerning shapes shall be complied with by day.

(e) The lights and shapes specified in these Rules shall comply with the provisions of Annex I [to these Regulations | of these Rules].


Annex I takes you straight to the CFR definitions of a nav light as posted above... "shall comply with the provisions of Annex I" is not worded lightly. This means every boat owners nav lights shall comply with the CFR specs above. "Shall comply" is not a gray area.

There are plenty of certified NAV lights on the market that meet the COLREGS standards but only two or three tested and certified for use in an already existing fixture. The only after market bulb that is certified, and has the testing certs to back it up, for use in existing fixtures, are or were made by Dr. LED but only for use in certain Aqua Signal fixtures. They have certifications for bow red, bow green and all-round.. However the red/green FAILED to meet the specs & pass certifications for a sailboat so the only certified aftermarket bulb I know of is the PolarStar 40 anchor light when used in an Aquasignal Series 40 All Round. Even Dr. LED can't pass USCG/ABYC A-16 certifications for a sail boat so how can a DIY be sure..????

There is no requirement that says you, as a private boat owner, must install "certified" lights. However, it is the law that your lights "shall comply" with Rule 20 / 33CFR 84 for distance, horizontal sectors, color and vertical sectors. How do you know they will, without any testing?

The easiest way to know your lights comply is to simply purchase USCG / ABYC A-16 certified navigation lights. Prices have come way down in recent years.

IMANNA Labs, the testing lab who does most of the testing, also accounts for bulb degradation in LED's and incandescents. Many of the LED fixtures they have been sent fail the burn in test because LED bulbs also lose lumen output over time and when poorly current regulated. They have tested some LED's that were at 50% output after just one week of use in the voltage ranges used on boats. This is simply sloppy design work. Many others fail color, horizontal, vertical or even distance. LED's also continually degrade and lose lumen output where incandescent drops initially then remain relatively flat. IMANNA accounts for all this in the certification process.

Companies are rather unscrupulous. One LED nav light IMANNA tested, that failed, wound up on the market anyway! The company simply did not care and still marketed it as a navigation light. In a liability case at lest in this case you could go after the manufacturer..

It is NOT easy to meet COLREGS standards with LED and it takes good engineering. Dr. LED has failed with numerous purpose built LED's to gain certification in existing fixtures.

IMANNA fails LED nav lights on a monthly basis and I have had long conversations with them about the process and all aspects of this testing. Companies like Hella, Aquasignal, Marine Beam, LopoLight, OGM and many others have built good LED lights and succeeded in getting them USCG certified. Today even some very, very low priced units are avaiable with USCG/ABYC A-16 certification.

There are MANY "navigation" lights out there that carry no certification both incandescent and LED and you'd not catch me dead using any of them. I am one who has been through an on-water night time death that involved lengthy forensics testimony on navigation lights. A drunk boater ran over one of my best friends fathers (overtaking situation) on a lake in NH and killed him. This was all before LED. I would not risk being on the water without knowing my navigation lights met the Federal Law requrements.. But that's just me. Also as a marine tech I can not and will not install non certified nav lighting no matter how much a customer begs. Others choose to do differently...

I climbed a mast a few summers ago, due to a deck light being out. The owners steaming light, an LED festoon (not a 360 degree design), was facing BACKWARDS! D'oh...... You can't physically do that with an incandescent. Owner insisted it was installed facing forward so it "must have vibrated backwards".....

Don't feel too badly though. One of the most famous non-certified widely used products is the Davis Mega Light. Many thosuands of sailors installed these but failed to consider that they DO NOT meet the COLREGS/Federal Law and they have no USCG / ABYC A-16 certification. Low power? Sure.. A real nav light that complies with the law? Nope....

Both manufacturers and vendors are running from the liability aspects too:

Hamilton Marine feels so strongly about not being involved in the liability chain they have these signs hanging right next to the LED lights where you can't miss it:




And this is the back of a package of an IMTRA LED bulb.


Seems no one wants to accept the potential liability for installing aftermarket LED's not even the people making them or the people selling them.

Consider this scenario:

You are at anchor with your non certified, blueish colored LED anchor light that you saved big money on by purchasing it from eBay. Joe six pack in his 32 foot Baja with 550 H.P. has been drinking all day and is blasting home when he plows into your boat and kills your child. Fast forward about two years to the trial where the sleaze-ball lawyer for the defendant is blaming you! He's convincing the jury that because you were a cheap skate, and circumvented the use of certified nav lights to save a few pennies (remember to the jury you are a wealthy boater anyway), you are the reason your child is dead because his drunk defendant could not see your anchor light...

A stretch? Possibly not. I sat through two days of this type of testimony during the trial of the defendant who killed my friends father. It was two days of nav light testimony only these were certified nav lights, and yes that was brought up, and the bulbs were examined by a forensics expert to determine if the bulb was on at time of impact. The case would have been made much easier if Kim's dad had simply installed aftermarket LED's as it would have given the lawyers a near immediate win on the nav light (stern light in this case) part of the case.

This is about your comfort level and I only wanted to give you all some things to consider.
 
Feb 8, 2014
1,300
Columbia 36 Muskegon
I recently ran into the same issue DialedN. I bought (3)led replacement bulbs at an auto fleamarket for my cabin lights. After installing only one would light. After taking the vendor's name in vain, I decided to investigate and found all 3 worked fine when I connected the bulb to a DC power supply. It turns out 2 of the 3 fixtures were wired reverse polarity, looked like it was that way from the factory. The fixture needs to be wired so the button on the bottom of the bulb is wired to the positive battery terminal, this was the black wire on my light fixtures.

A lot of older boats are wired that way. With incandescent bulbs polarity makes absolutely no difference, so they often ran a pair of same color wires to the fixtures and connected them without regard to polarity. It was quicker and cheaper that way. With an indexed led (only goes in one way) you may have to flip the wires to make it work. If you had two fixtures, one might work as installed and the other might not. 50/50 chance.