MacGregor Swing Keel - Complete rebuild

Aug 29, 2018
8
Hi Everyone,

I have a 1982 MacGregor Venture with a swing keel. When we bought the boat we could see significant cracks in the glass for the keel but figured it would be somewhat superficial rebuild, but once we got the boat up we could see that the repair was pretty significant.


We haven't fully lowered and removed the keel yet just due to the logistical challenges, but will be doing so. We decided to pull off all the glass. The structure of the keel is an iron bar that had some bad corrosion and it's embedded into the lead weight. A wood form was abutted to the bottom of the iron bar.

The top was basically formed by bondo covered by fiberglass.


Here's what the keel looks like now:


The metal bar is embedded in what I assume to be a lead bulb. It seems pretty well attached.

So we are looking to basically rebuild the keel. Is the way this keel is built legit? Looking for general comments, advice on the best approach. I'm assuming I need to build a mold to recreate the top bondo? Anyone taken on a project like this before?

Appreciate the feedback - it's my first post to this group.
 
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Sep 25, 2008
957
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
Looks like somebody had already made their own keel. That is not an original design. It is very creative though. Not a very stable design, which is why it started to crack apart. Here is what a Mac25 keel looks like. One solid cast iron piece. The earlier Mac's were made with steel plates all welded together and covered in glass mat. Similar to yours, and shared the same fate....cracking apart. What size is your boat?
 
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Aug 29, 2018
8
Thanks for this reply.
This sure helps explain why all the keel repairs I've seen have been for solid core keels...sigh.
It's a Venture 24.
So, any advise on how you would proceed? Try to find a legit replacement keel? Fabrication? Take our chances with rebuilding and hope we get a couple years in?
 
Sep 25, 2008
957
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
The Mac's are pretty common and I'd look for a cheap hulk that still has the keel (and probably other good re-usable parts). I believe the 25 uses the same keel as the 24 (measure to be sure) and will be easier to find. Every once and awhile I see a keel on Ebay. I had a 22 w/o a keel and bought my 25 before I found a keel for the 22 (which I turned into yard art....lol)
 
Jul 29, 2010
1,392
Macgregor 76 V-25 #928 Lake Mead, Nevada
Looking at picture. Is that a piece of wood. Not a factory job. '82 should have come with cast iron keel? PO must have redone once before. Look for cast iron without fiberglass covering. Had same issue with our '22. It was a bear. Good Luck. What part of country are you in.
 
Aug 29, 2018
8
Thanks for the reply. Does anyone have rough schematics or dimensions? There's a local metal fabricator and I'm going to see if it's possible to have the core made. Note to self - this is why you don't take a weekend sailing course and go out and buy a boat :)
Reporting live from land locked PA.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Oh my Nicole... you have your hands full! I just finished a V222 swing keel... if I can be of any help let me know. I just posted pictures. My only suggestion would be don't get to hung up on fairing. Yes you want it as fair as you can get it, but your boat, like mine will never be a racer and litterally the hours and hunderds invested will not gain you a half knot! Good luck and feel free to reach out.
 
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Jun 25, 2016
65
Venture 21 Minter Bay
Nicole, did you say your Venture is a V21? (Oops, saw a later reply where you noted it is a V24...) That keel looks just like mine from my V21, except where you have wood on the leading edge I had filled polyester, just like the other trailing edge. Perhaps a PO made an attempt at repairing the original... Another scenario could be it had a rusted cast iron keel (which they switched to sometime after my 1974 boat was built) and that one was substituted (and maybe repaired sometime in its life).

The bottom line, it will be a big project, unless you choose to have a shop fabricate one. If you do that, make a couple extra and sell them at a mark up to reduce the cost for the one on your boat! :)

When I removed mine to begin rebuilding, I took measurements so I could get it back to something close to original. I've atttached the sketch with dimensions and measurements for holes, etc. Perhaps that will help if you choose a fabricator.

My plan is to reform the upper part (glued pieces back together) - from the lead bulb to the top end where the pivot bolt and lock pin holes are located - and will use that as a rough "plug" or copy from which I can then create an open mold using fiberglass and resin. When that is done, my expectation is to lay the bar/bulb in the mold and recast the upper section. Of course, I have used my angle grinder to remove the rust down to shiney iron and coated that with a paint that chemically bonds with any remaining corrosion to prevent further rusting (Rustoleum's Rust Reformer bought at Home Depot). The key will be to make the pivot hole sturdy enough and 'engineer' a solid bearing surface (bronze?) to prevent cracking of the shell materials and water penetration that will lead to the iron rusting again.

The cast keel will be a very rough version and will take a good deal of shaping to get it back to the default dimensions. Then I will cover the whole keel, including the bulb, in epoxy laminate, fare the surface, redrill the pivot, lock and cable holes, apply an epoxy barrier coat and then a top coat (undecided on what I'll use).

Good thing I am retired...just need to finish a few other home projects so I can get back to the keel (2 years later)!

Feel free to contact me if you have questions on the sketch, what I am planning to do for my repair, or anything else on V21s in general. There is also a good V21 Facebook Group...

Cheers!
 

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Aug 29, 2018
8
Thanks Todd - I have to admit I'm feeling a little overwhelmed by the project, but I'm digging deep to find the glass half full attitude. What better way to get to know this boat, right?
 
Aug 29, 2018
8
VentureEd - thank you! You give me hope. Your project sounds almost identical to the one we'll be attempting so I will definitely be in touch. Really appreciate this forum.
 
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Likes: Todd Atchison
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Another consideration is if the boat is going to be kept in the water or on the trailer. I know many sailors here might take exception with my keel refab, but I wanted to sail so I took the path of least resistance. I stripped the keel back down to the bare iron core, ground off all the rust and coated with Rustolium:

IMG_6138.JPG


Then I assembled all the remaining pieces or at least the big ones:

IMG_6142.JPG


Then I attached the pieces to the keel with epoxy resin and filled any space with fiberglass cloth and polyester filler:

IMG_6186.JPG


IMG_6190.JPG


IMG_6196.JPG

I know it looks ruff, but once the resin set up, I could shape it with a sander. The reason I went this route was to avoid having to rebuild the LE and TE. This is where your PO used the wood I suspect, somthing to add material. Without it, there is a lot of space to fill. I chose recycling the old pieces because most of the LE and TE was still intact and could be placed back on the keel.

IMG_6234.JPG


Once I had the shape, I coated the entire keel with fiberglass cloth and a thick coat of resin and many coats of Rustolium.

IMG_6301.JPG


Again, many will say I should have (insert opinion here) and they would probalbly be right. That being said, my route wasn't ideal and it will in fact rust again. But, I store my boat on a trailer and if I get a few years while I search for or have a new keel fabricated like you, at least I'll be sailing.
 
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Aug 29, 2018
8
Wow - that's quite a rebuild. Pretty impressive outcome for what looked to be an ugly start. This boat is also on a trailer and it's not the "forever" boat. It's the "maybe I can get this thing on the water and learn for a few years" boat. Sometimes good enough is good enough. You're all helping me feel undeterred :)
 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
You can do it Nicole! It's dirty, heavy, nasty and I probably ate fiberglass dust for at least two weeks! But, in the end there was no feeling like it. We just splashed this past weekend and knowing what was down there and that I had done it myself was priceless! Remeber, it dosen't have to be perfect. I still had so"wavy" parts of the keel, but as stated before, she will never race. Be mindfull of the area that "inserts" back into the trunk. The width tolerances are very unforgiving (at least they where on my V222). I ended up using a belt sander to shave off a few millimeters to make it fit. But once I did that, she went right in. Good luck and keep the post coming.
 
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Jun 25, 2016
65
Venture 21 Minter Bay
I almost considered doing what Todd did, but many of the pieces had a coating of rusty iron and I didn't knownif I could get that to adhere to the iron core...and mine had developed a bit of a twist that would have taken a lot of grinding to work back into shape. I guess there are many ways n to do this kind of repair and you work within your skill set and capabilities. Moving that large chunk of lead and iron is a biggie! It sure seams that someone would have come up with a better overall design by now...maybe Nicole's will...if she goes that route!:)

Keep us updated. Cheers!
 
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Likes: Nicole Matz
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
VentureED, it's funny I thought about a "Keel Fix Kit" that would in essence just be a blank, fiberglass sleave that an iron core could be placed in. If someone could make sleeves of the various Mac keel designs, they could make a pretty penny selling them. Every Mac pre-1974 would buy one! You would just need the CAD drawings or make them from the many documents floating around and then create a sleave with a hollow core. Thoughts? Could be a great venture for someone... no pune intented.
 
Mar 26, 2014
54
Macgregor 25 Kaw Lake Oklahoma
I know a guy who has a keel from a 1985 MAC 25 problem is it's in Oklahoma
 
Jun 25, 2016
65
Venture 21 Minter Bay
Continuing Todd's product brainstorming...

Has anyone removed the iron bar from the lead bulb or seen any documentation on how they were made?

Mine appears to be in two halves with a thin sheet of rusting metal between them...like they cast half of the bulb, laid the bar with some plate welded on to hold it in place relative to the lead, then cast the other half. I tried asking Blue Water Yachts in Seattle if they knew more...and somewhere I read that the early ones were done by a contractor who used a sandy beach for the mold! I suppose the move to cast iron was an attempt to streamline the whole process...

So, back to the product idea, woukd it be better to come up with a full casting solution, or devise something that appeals to the DYIer who wants to rebuild any of the assorted designs?

Too bad the original specs and build processes aren't documented...then it might be as simple as figuring out a cost-effective way to manufacture them.

Thanks for indulging the 'left turn' in this thread!

Cheers!