Simple LED Conversion

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
If this has been covered, please accept my apology. I did a search and couldn't find this particular modification. I'm sure that most of you have done this, but just in case....

LED conversions that are "marine specific" are horribly priced...after all, it's just a bulb! Direct replacement LED's are available but I just couldn't bring myself to fork over all that $$$$! My background is in electronics and this kind of stuff drives me crazy!

In order to make the LED fit properly, I removed the (concave) contact ends from the old bulb (these are available for purchase but why buy?) and pressed them onto the (convex) new LED.

The enclosed pics show the new LED to be 44mm and with the mod it moves to 45 mm...this is a little tight (but fits) the original light fixture. Please note that this is not the bulb I intend to use...this was just for proof of concept. I am planning to use a 38 mm festoon (link below). Lumens are a little tricky to convert to wattage but something around 60 lumens should be equal to about 10 watts. As we know, VxA=W, therefore the current draw for the LED should be around 30 mA giving us .36 watts as a power output. Quick math shows us that the old incandescent bulb at 10 watts draws around 833 mah for the equivalent amount of work/power (10 watts).

Quite a power savings!

P.S. If you folks find these bulbs for less, please let me know...I have done business with this company, but have no loyalty to them! Also, if one wanted to increase the lighting a little, any festoon bulb (that fits) will work safely (I know of no LED with festoon base that exceeds the original bulb).

Ken


https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/festoon/3710-led-bulb-3-smd-led-festoon-38mm-car/2161/4950/

20180816_104125.jpg 20180816_102114.jpg 20180816_104102.jpg 20180816_093242.jpg 20180816_093343.jpg 20180816_093326.jpg
 

kbgunn

.
Sep 19, 2017
210
2005 Hunter 33 Lake Lewisville, TX
Nice proof of concept. I've been looking for a cost effective replacement for the Aqua Signal incandescent festoon bulb with concave tips. There are a couple other considerations you may want to think through:
1. Vibration. On the stern rail and bow pulpit there will be vibration while motoring and also when towed on the trailer. You will want to make sure you have a mechanically strong solution that will stay in place under the expected conditions. You also want the light viewable at 2nm through the required arcs. Vibration may cause the bulb to altogether pop out of the clips or rotate in the contact clips changing the viewing arc.
2. Moisture. Most of the bulbs I've seen are for interior use in automobiles. The nav lights are a much different environment. Moisture sealed units would be preferred but come at a premium.
3. Current regulation. Nav lights are important safety devices. Unregulated, the bulb intensity would vary as loading and unloading occurs on the DC bus and battery voltage changes. Including a regulator for constant current to the LED would be preferred.
4. Color. The LEDs tend to have more blue and green spectrum and less of the red end of the spectrum. This may alter the color when viewed through a red/green lens.

The only alternative I've seen that meets my (strict and maybe unreasonable) requirements are Dr. LED:
https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|65136|2312540|2312566|2312568&id=3729921

But, at 10x the cost of your prototype, I haven't jumped in with both feet. I have an adequate supply of incandescent at the moment so I've been kicking the decision down the road.

*sigh*
KBG
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
:)
Nice proof of concept. I've been looking for a cost effective replacement for the Aqua Signal incandescent festoon bulb with concave tips. There are a couple other considerations you may want to think through:
1. Vibration. On the stern rail and bow pulpit there will be vibration while motoring and also when towed on the trailer. You will want to make sure you have a mechanically strong solution that will stay in place under the expected conditions. You also want the light viewable at 2nm through the required arcs. Vibration may cause the bulb to altogether pop out of the clips or rotate in the contact clips changing the viewing arc.
2. Moisture. Most of the bulbs I've seen are for interior use in automobiles. The nav lights are a much different environment. Moisture sealed units would be preferred but come at a premium.
3. Current regulation. Nav lights are important safety devices. Unregulated, the bulb intensity would vary as loading and unloading occurs on the DC bus and battery voltage changes. Including a regulator for constant current to the LED would be preferred.
4. Color. The LEDs tend to have more blue and green spectrum and less of the red end of the spectrum. This may alter the color when viewed through a red/green lens.

The only alternative I've seen that meets my (strict and maybe unreasonable) requirements are Dr. LED:
https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|65136|2312540|2312566|2312568&id=3729921

But, at 10x the cost of your prototype, I haven't jumped in with both feet. I have an adequate supply of incandescent at the moment so I've been kicking the decision down the road.

*sigh*
KBG
Hi KBG
Thanks for taking time to provide valuable feedback!

I can follow your thoughts of vibration and color but I'm not so worried about current and moisture. As to current regulation, an incandescent bulb would be subjected to the same voltage fluctuation (only worse and faster due to its already hight current drain). The LED that I show in the link is provided with a constant-current driver which allows current to remain constant during voltage level fluctuations. Keep in mind that as voltage decreases, current increases (VxA=W). As mentioned, the LED referenced is not subject to current change during a voltage change. As to brightness, an LED can be configured to be many times brighter than an "approved" bulb while drawing less current and remaining cooler.

Please believe me when I say that I am only trying to base my findings on the testing that I have done on my own. I think it is a great thing that this forum is loaded with folks that are constantly looking for alternatives that will reduce the cost of this sport. I fear that we get caught up too easily in what we are told by the folks that are selling "real marine stuff" (which is required in some cases). I have seen the same thing in aviation for 40 years...buy this or that because it is "approved".

As to moisture, that one will require a little additional testing, but I did do a fun experiment just to see what would happen to an LED if exposed to moisture.:)
20180816_123547.jpg


Thanks
Ken

P.S. This is a chart that is included in the link I posted earlier:
LED Map Lights
Glove Box Light
Footwell Lights
Trunk Light
LED Vanity Lights
Anchor Lights
Stern Lights
Masthead Lights
Dome Lights
 

kbgunn

.
Sep 19, 2017
210
2005 Hunter 33 Lake Lewisville, TX
But does it continue to operate immersed in a glass of Shiner?

You made your point in style. And I wasn't saying you were wrong in any way. I'm with you, brother. Trying to find cost reductions for this sport is #1 on my list. Keep me updated how your mod performs over time. These are cheap enough that I will probably conduct a trial on my boat too.
 
  • Like
Likes: w4swk

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
:(
But does it continue to operate immersed in a glass of Shiner?

You made your point in style. And I wasn't saying you were wrong in any way. I'm with you, brother. Trying to find cost reductions for this sport is #1 on my list. Keep me updated how your mod performs over time. These are cheap enough that I will probably conduct a trial on my boat too.
My comments were meant only as observation and I thank you for taking them that way! You are a true gentleman, Sir! Now about that Shiner...how dare you suggest using good beer for such meaningless tests!!!!:dancing:
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I had a 4-LED bulb for my B323 cockpit table light, but of course the wrong base. Turned out the end caps were just slide-on ove the element wire that comes out the end of the bulb. Slipped off the worng ones, slid on the ones I needed. Perhaps all the end caps will just slide off with a rubber band and pliers to encourage them?
 
  • Like
Likes: w4swk

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
I had a 4-LED bulb for my B323 cockpit table light, but of course the wrong base. Turned out the end caps were just slide-on ove the element wire that comes out the end of the bulb. Slipped off the worng ones, slid on the ones I needed. Perhaps all the end caps will just slide off with a rubber band and pliers to encourage them?
One of mine came off while removing it from the fixture. The other fell off after carrying it around in my pocket for a day! LOL They really aren't on that good...at least mine were not.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Color. The LEDs tend to have more blue and green spectrum and less of the red end of the spectrum. This may alter the color when viewed through a red/green lens.
That exactly why the LED replacements for Red/Green bow light's are not simply a single bulb.



bigclive youtube videos have a bunch of LED tests.
He discusses how most cheap chinese LEDS are factory seconds, that work fine in ideal conditions, but fail to meet specs.
One result that he demoed is that the cheap flawed ones cut out earlier due to a narrower voltage range. (unlike incandescent which just get dimmer)
 
Jul 22, 2011
146
Mariner Yacht Co.(NH) Mariner 28 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
There used to be many threads about converting Nav lights to LED, but I guess they are disappearing as sites are overhauled. There are detailed specifications for nav lights as published by the USCG for meeting international col regs. There may be unpleasant legal consequences if you are involved in a collision while using navigation lights that do not meet specifications. In short just replacing an incandescent bulb with an LED bulb may leave you with a fixture that does not meet specifications. Part of the cost for Marine LEDs in the cost of testing for regulatory compliance. In my opinion, using USCG "approved" fixtures is safer. I have found that Marine Beam is a very good compromise with high quality/low cost. I have no connection with Marine Beam other than as a customer.
At one time led bulbs was almost as hot a topic as anchors or guns on board.
Lou
 
Last edited:

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
There used to be many threads about converting Nav lights to LED, but I guess they are disappearing as sites are overhauled. There are detailed specifications for nav lights as published by the USCG for meeting international col regs. There may be unpleasant legal consequences if you are involved in a collision while using navigation lights that do not meet specifications. In short just replacing an incandescent bulb with an LED bulb may leave you with a fixture that does not meet specifications. Part of the cost for Marine LEDs in the cost of testing for regulatory compliance. In my opinion, using USCG "approved" fixtures is safer. I have found that Marine Beam is a very good compromise with high quality/low cost. I have no connection with Marine Beam other than as a customer.
At one time led bulbs was almost as hot a topic as anchors or guns on board.
Lou
Hi Lou
I'll probably get flamed for this or even worse, banned but I couldn't disagree more. I have heard this same "approved" lighting argument in the 40 years I have been flying and owning airplanes. I have heard comments ranging from color to vibration to visible distance. I will contend that, given color and distance being satisfied, the absolute worst LED is better than that cheesy 10W thing Catalina provides to be "Coast Guard Compliant". If I can use an LED stern light that can be seen for several miles, I will use it. Same goes with the anchor light...we spend a lot of time anchored at night and I prefer to be seen farther away than 2nm. At this time, I am only experimenting with the "white" lights on my boat, but if it is cooler, lasts hundreds of years longer and uses WAAAY less power I will do it.

OK...asbestos suit is on......:)

Thanks,
Ken
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Yup.. lots of us have transitioned and are enjoying the low current benefits !
This bulb in "warm white" will render the proper colors in an Aquasignal 25 bi-color.. and works in the stern fixture perfectly.. From what I can see, this bulb is as bright or brighter than the incandescent bulb ..
https://www.ledwholesalers.com/v2/index.php?route=product/product&path=169_45&product_id=73
Hi kloudie
Thanks so much for posting that link...I was just about to pull the trigger on a replacement LED for my anchor light from Amazon, but I like yours better...a little brighter and half price!

Ken
 
Jul 22, 2011
146
Mariner Yacht Co.(NH) Mariner 28 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Hi Lou
I'll probably get flamed for this or even worse, banned but I couldn't disagree more. I have heard this same "approved" lighting argument in the 40 years I have been flying and owning airplanes. I have heard comments ranging from color to vibration to visible distance. I will contend that, given color and distance being satisfied, the absolute worst LED is better than that cheesy 10W thing Catalina provides to be "Coast Guard Compliant". If I can use an LED stern light that can be seen for several miles, I will use it. Same goes with the anchor light...we spend a lot of time anchored at night and I prefer to be seen farther away than 2nm. At this time, I am only experimenting with the "white" lights on my boat, but if it is cooler, lasts hundreds of years longer and uses WAAAY less power I will do it.

OK...asbestos suit is on......:)

Thanks,
Ken
No argument from me, I was trying to relate what the threads were about without being judgmental. Sorry if I failed at that. I once got trashed for asking about converting my cabin lights to LED and ended up with rants about navigation lights. There ARE USCG regs regarding color temperature and distance measurements. That being said, I cannot imagine anyone testing my 28 ft sailboat for correctness. I used the afore mentioned Marine beams, they are high quality lights, they have been certified and I needed new lights anyway. I was incorrect in that USCG does not approve equipment, but an independent lab certifies that the equipment meets specifications. The Marine Beams are certified. There are and will be many arguments about legal effects, but I see very few citations of actual cases. There have been endless disagreements about the definition of "masthead" light, which means a steaming light, but is often used to mean anchor light, but that is all part of the fun. I picked up a used copy of "Farwell's Rules of the Road" for a few dollars and it is interesting and real case law. My copy is too old to have anything about LED Nav lights, so no help there.
Fair Winds.
Lou
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Hi Lou
Once again, I feel we are dealing with old myths here. I'm not trying to be difficult or obstinate, I just think that there is a lot of misinformation floating around about these LED bulbs. Only the FIXTURE is certified to meet Colreg requirements...NOT the bulbs. Please visit this link to Cruising Solutions (they sell LED bulbs). You will find the following quote:

"The USCG and other maritime testing agencies currently do not certify replacement bulbs by themselves, LED or otherwise. Only luminaires (fixtures with bulbs) are certified against the Colreg requirements.

For clear or white lens, use CW (cool white). For coloured lens, use WW (warm white)."

https://www.cruisingsolutions.com/collections/lighting/products/festoon-44d

Thanks
Ken
 
Aug 21, 2018
14
Catalina 22 Lake Waccamaw, NC / Holden Bch
Yup.. lots of us have transitioned and are enjoying the low current benefits !
This bulb in "warm white" will render the proper colors in an Aquasignal 25 bi-color.. and works in the stern fixture perfectly.. From what I can see, this bulb is as bright or brighter than the incandescent bulb ..
https://www.ledwholesalers.com/v2/index.php?route=product/product&path=169_45&product_id=73
Hello all. Am I missing something here, or is there no choice for "warm white" at this link. The only colors I'm seeing are "Red" or "Green".
I'd like to get the warm white for the bi-color, and cool white for steaming, anchor, and stern (all the same incandescent double ended barrel-type festoon) @kloudie1 @w4swk
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Hello all. Am I missing something here, or is there no choice for "warm white" at this link. The only colors I'm seeing are "Red" or "Green".
I'd like to get the warm white for the bi-color, and cool white for steaming, anchor, and stern (all the same incandescent double ended barrel-type festoon) @kloudie1 @w4swk
This is the bulb I finally decided on for my anchor light...a little bright but while I'm asleep at anchor, I REALLY want to be seen!
https://www.amazon.com/HQRP-Festoon...=1534509435&sr=8-8&keywords=anchor+light+bulb


This should be good as a replacement behing a red/green lens.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1...SVddkTIMUk9OvYmPqX9Aq8fyOHW_sqvsaAmY0EALw_wcB
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
You may wish to read this about LEDs that produce RF interference.
Especially those near a VHF antenna, like a masthead anchor light.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/leds-warning-from-uscg.193261/#post-1482194
I was wondering how long it would take for this "alert" to make it to the forum...I have read it. Having held a Radio License for 35 years, I did a little digging...in some cases many folks have experienced no RF problems at all, in other cases the trouble was found in cheap equipment and then others have installed a simple filter. Before I condemn the switch to LED, I would look at antenna installation, faulty wiring (both power and coax), and grounding. RF problems are probably one of the most vague and broad issues in the world of electronics. I once spent days chasing a noise problem only to find it was a "touch sensor" lamp! And last, but not least...these reports were not based on lab tests or any other empirical testing.
If one chooses to stay with 19th century technology(1879) please do so, but I hope that a decision to upgrade or not is based on fact and data...
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
I hope that a decision to upgrade or not is based on fact and data...
Hear Hear.

Yet, the lack of true testing, doesn't mean that we should ignore anecdotal "evidence"
Like any claim without unbiased quality data, I'd look at this with healthy scepticism.

I have seen more that enough crap power supplies produce RF interference.

Would LED lamps with bad PSU designs cause enough noise to cause reception problems on a well installed Marine VHF set ?

First thoughts that come to my mind are:
The warning doesn't state what the power source was. We talking 120 VAC or 12 VDC ?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: w4swk