New Tow Vehicle

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Soooooo, after 250,000 miles on my pickup, I think I will look for a new tow vehicle. I've always owned Ford trucks, but many of my local boat (mostly power) friends have Toyota. I have been researching the Tundra with 5.7...shows 9800 lb. tow capacity and runs about 10,000 dollars less than its Ford counterpart.
Comments? Thoughts?

Ken
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
My buddy in Texas has a Tundra with the 5.7. Tows 4 boats (23 to 28 feet) with it. Made in San Antonio. It's the new official car of Texas. Thing is AWESOME. A monster. And with the extended cab, the back seat is a limousine. Really. More comfortable sitting back there than in front. Recommended.
 
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Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
You got 250,000 on your last one. I do not see where the question is.

I had a 96 F150 with 270,000 and got $2,000 on the trade in for an Escape we bought for our daughter when she finished her masters and went off into the real world. I'd have kept it but we sort of did not need six cars around.
 
Nov 26, 2012
1,653
Hunter 34 Berkeley
I have a 2007 Tundra. I do not use it to tow a boat but I can say that it is the best vehicle I have ever owned. It has 140k miles and the only repair I have ever done is a new starter, break pads, battery and tires. Super comfy and handles really well for a large vehicle. 381 hp.
 
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
I have a 2016 Tundra 5.7 with tow package for my business vehicle. It tows like a beast. We pulled our Albin Vega 27 across the Appalachians and down to Florida from Massachusetts with no complaints. The built-in electric brake controller is "quirky", but not problematic.

It barely feels the C22 back there.

85,000 miles on it so far. 15-16 mpg depending on your right foot.
 

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,037
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
So Toyota is extremely old design and tech, they get way worst mpg in all full size trucks. My 2014 Ram 1500 4x4 Crew Cab has had zero mechanical issues in the 92k miles I've owned it since new. My mixed weekly driving is 16-17 mpg with some stop and go and jumps on and off highways. On trips to FL and across FL I easily get 20+ mpg. Obviously these numbers are not tow numbers but since for me my trucks spends far more time unload vs loaded that is my feedback.

Honestly it comes down to what you like and want, all the major trucks can be luxed out to the 10s and maxed out and have great electric brake and tow package options. I'd check and see exactly how you use the truck most of the time too.
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
So Toyota is extremely old design and tech, they get way worst mpg in all full size trucks. My 2014 Ram 1500 4x4 Crew Cab has had zero mechanical issues in the 92k miles I've owned it since new. My mixed weekly driving is 16-17 mpg with some stop and go and jumps on and off highways. On trips to FL and across FL I easily get 20+ mpg. Obviously these numbers are not tow numbers but since for me my trucks spends far more time unload vs loaded that is my feedback.

Honestly it comes down to what you like and want, all the major trucks can be luxed out to the 10s and maxed out and have great electric brake and tow package options. I'd check and see exactly how you use the truck most of the time too.
Hi John

Thanks for the details! Since I have retired, my personal driving amounts to around 4,000 miles per year. If we take long trips, we usually take my wife's car which gets 30-40 (depending on who is driving!) Currently, I have a 2007 Ford 4x4 with 5.4 V8. It has been good to me but at 250,000 miles it's time to go. In my effort to compare "apples to apples", Ford wants at least 10K more for a truck that will "almost" perform as well as the Tundra. For that kind of saving, I don't mind old school technology...heck, I still remember how to turn that crank thingy to make a window go up! :)
 
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JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,037
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Sounds like a good approach. I like Toyota's too, and the Tundra's I've driven do feel great and are very nice. I could never get a better deal on a Toyota vs my Ram so that also swayed me to Ram.
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
I like Toyota’s too. With driving only 4000 miles annually, the poor gas mileage on the Tundra shouldn’t be a big deal. That was a major factor in my decision when I bought last year as I average over 20,000 miles per year. Otherwise, I would have bought a tundra instead of GMC. Toyota really needs to work on that.
 

Grotto

.
Feb 18, 2018
273
Catalina 22 Wilmington
Towed my C22 from oriental nc to Wilmington using my Toyota FJ Cruiser it’s only a 6 but has been the best “truck” I have owned. the Toyota power plants are pretty bullet proof too.
 
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Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Currently, I have a 2007 Ford 4x4 with 5.4 V8. It has been good to me but at 250,000 miles it's time to go.
Not bad AT ALL for a 5.4 triton That engine is considered crap by mechanics.
Not only is there a special tool designed to extract commonly broken spark plugs for that motor... there is a little screen on the driver side cylinder head which is prone to clogging, which eventually damages the valve timing system and can kill the motor. Our small shop fixes 2 with the timing issues a year. The last one in, was scrapped by the owner due to repair costs. We don't see the spark plug issue so much anymore due to the fact they have already been fixed. The fun thing is that if you can't get the broken plugs out, you need to remove the cab to get the cylinder heads off.
Older Escapes commonly have transmission failures. Other newer ford engines have common problems.
I was going to buy a Focus RS, but they have serious cylinder head problems.
While old fords were good, I can't think of a new Ford model I'd buy now.
Our shop loves fixing Fords from a revenue standpoint. The Techs in the back hate actually doing the repairs.


I previously owned a '96 Ram 1500 5.2 litre 2wd long box which was bulletproof. The newer ones are far from bulletproof.
Horn not working ? Fuel pump not working ? Probably due to the horrible integrated power module which includes non servicable relays for some systems. Beside other issues, they also rust faster than my old 96 did.

I'd buy a chev or especially a toyota. Like most recent vehicles, they have stupid design issues meant to increase after sales revenue, but they are currently much better than other options.

1) Don't make the mistake of being loyal to a brand. Just because older models were ok, doesn't mean the newer ones are. One manufacturer's model can be ok, but another crap. Even one model with a specific drivetrain can be crap vs the same model with a different drivetrain.


2) Don't buy something with a new design engine, transmission, etc. unless you want to be the guinea pig and get expensive surprises due to a crap design. Buy proven platforms that have been out for a while. That way you know the common problems and how to mitigate them. Carbon buildup in your direct injection motor anyone ?
That even applies to things like the body of a vehicle. Ask autobody shops about the wonderment of aluminum body fords.

3) Don't buy new. Let someone else find the defects and pay the initial depreciation.

4) Can't get a deal on one vehicle, but another you can ? It may be because they are having a harder time selling them. Does one depreciate faster than the other ? Hmm... Wonder why that is ?

People talk about fuel cost. Considering the price of a new vehicle, especially overpriced trucks, fuel cost IMO is the least of the problem.
A buddy just paid $80,000 CAD for a loaded Chev diesel to replace his older duramax... You can buy a lot of fuel and maintenance for $80,000
Maybe he got mesmerized by the fancy digital gadgets.

Just my two cents.
 
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Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
Not bad AT ALL for a 5.4 triton That engine is considered crap by mechanics.
Not only is there a special tool designed to extract commonly broken spark plugs for that motor... there is a little screen on the driver side cylinder head which is prone to clogging, which eventually damages the valve timing system and can kill the motor. Our small shop fixes 2 with the timing issues a year. The last one in, was scrapped by the owner due to repair costs. We don't see the spark plug issue so much anymore due to the fact they have already been fixed. The fun thing is that if you can't get the broken plugs out, you need to remove the cab to get the cylinder heads off.
Older Escapes commonly have transmission failures. Other newer ford engines have common problems.
I was going to buy a Focus RS, but they have serious cylinder head problems.
While old fords were good, I can't think of a new Ford model I'd buy now.
Our shop loves fixing Fords from a revenue standpoint. The Techs in the back hate actually doing the repairs.


I previously owned a '96 Ram 1500 5.2 litre 2wd long box which was bulletproof. The newer ones are far from bulletproof.
Horn not working ? Fuel pump not working ? Probably due to the horrible integrated power module which includes non servicable relays for some systems. Beside other issues, they also rust faster than my old 96 did.

I'd buy a chev or especially a toyota. Like most recent vehicles, they have stupid design issues meant to increase after sales revenue, but they are currently much better than other options.

1) Don't make the mistake of being loyal to a brand. Just because older models were ok, doesn't mean the newer ones are. One manufacturer's model can be ok, but another crap. Even one model with a specific drivetrain can be crap vs the same model with a different drivetrain.


2) Don't buy something with a new design engine, transmission, etc. unless you want to be the guinea pig and get expensive surprises due to a crap design. Buy proven platforms that have been out for a while. That way you know the common problems and how to mitigate them. Carbon buildup in your direct injection motor anyone ?
That even applies to things like the body of a vehicle. Ask autobody shops about the wonderment of aluminum body fords.

3) Don't buy new. Let someone else find the defects and pay the initial depreciation.

4) Can't get a deal on one vehicle, but another you can ? It may be because they are having a harder time selling them. Does one depreciate faster than the other ? Hmm... Wonder why that is ?

People talk about fuel cost. Considering the price of a new vehicle, especially overpriced trucks, fuel cost IMO is the least of the problem.
A buddy just paid $80,000 CAD for a loaded Chev diesel to replace his older duramax... You can buy a lot of fuel and maintenance for $80,000
Maybe he got mesmerized by the fancy digital gadgets.

Just my two cents.
It sounds like you have a fairly informed opinion about the quality & reliability of various vehicles. If someone were looking to buy a short bed half ton standard cab 4x4 pickup with 7,000# tow capacity, air conditioning & not a whole lot of other gizmos, which ones would you recommend?
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
About the only options that I would have liked on the 350 are a backup camera (ONLY so I stop touching the trailer when coupling up) and a sunroof. The truck turned 280 k last week and the diesel gets regular Rotella. That's the biggest cost in my opinion, $200 plus for an oil change, and then the damm cattle pee that it seems to sometimes sip on, and sometimes drink heartily. I doubt I'd consider anything less than a 1 ton for the little Catalina.
 

w4swk

.
Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Not bad AT ALL for a 5.4 triton That engine is considered crap by mechanics.
Not only is there a special tool designed to extract commonly broken spark plugs for that motor... there is a little screen on the driver side cylinder head which is prone to clogging, which eventually damages the valve timing system and can kill the motor. Our small shop fixes 2 with the timing issues a year. The last one in, was scrapped by the owner due to repair costs. We don't see the spark plug issue so much anymore due to the fact they have already been fixed. The fun thing is that if you can't get the broken plugs out, you need to remove the cab to get the cylinder heads off.
Older Escapes commonly have transmission failures. Other newer ford engines have common problems.
I was going to buy a Focus RS, but they have serious cylinder head problems.
While old fords were good, I can't think of a new Ford model I'd buy now.
Our shop loves fixing Fords from a revenue standpoint. The Techs in the back hate actually doing the repairs.


I previously owned a '96 Ram 1500 5.2 litre 2wd long box which was bulletproof. The newer ones are far from bulletproof.
Horn not working ? Fuel pump not working ? Probably due to the horrible integrated power module which includes non servicable relays for some systems. Beside other issues, they also rust faster than my old 96 did.

I'd buy a chev or especially a toyota. Like most recent vehicles, they have stupid design issues meant to increase after sales revenue, but they are currently much better than other options.

1) Don't make the mistake of being loyal to a brand. Just because older models were ok, doesn't mean the newer ones are. One manufacturer's model can be ok, but another crap. Even one model with a specific drivetrain can be crap vs the same model with a different drivetrain.


2) Don't buy something with a new design engine, transmission, etc. unless you want to be the guinea pig and get expensive surprises due to a crap design. Buy proven platforms that have been out for a while. That way you know the common problems and how to mitigate them. Carbon buildup in your direct injection motor anyone ?
That even applies to things like the body of a vehicle. Ask autobody shops about the wonderment of aluminum body fords.

3) Don't buy new. Let someone else find the defects and pay the initial depreciation.

4) Can't get a deal on one vehicle, but another you can ? It may be because they are having a harder time selling them. Does one depreciate faster than the other ? Hmm... Wonder why that is ?

People talk about fuel cost. Considering the price of a new vehicle, especially overpriced trucks, fuel cost IMO is the least of the problem.
A buddy just paid $80,000 CAD for a loaded Chev diesel to replace his older duramax... You can buy a lot of fuel and maintenance for $80,000
Maybe he got mesmerized by the fancy digital gadgets.

Just my two cents.
Hello and Thank You!
I can see that this thread is about to get hijacked by other user's issues! All very good and valid points! The only saving grace we have is that our youngest son was a Ford trained tech for many years before moving up to bigger and better. He has cautioned me about some of the same issues you bring up. The old Ford has seen its better days and will be allowed to slowly fade into the sunset...we have spent the last couple days shopping and will probably have a Tundra sitting in the hangar tonight!

Again, thanks to everyone for all the GREAT comments...I now release this thread to anyone that would like to hijack it with tow questions of their own.

Ken and Sharlene
 

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
My tow rig. 1996 F250 diesel 7.3 Powerstroke. In the last 5 years I've replace 4 tires and 1 glow plug relay ( Relay was $100)
Buy quality old stuff
IMG_1289.JPG
 
May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
Make a list of desirable features. 1) V8 power to maintain gas mileage on the road 2) 4 wheel drive to come up them slippery ramps 3) Automatic transmission as they multiply torque 4) Good undercoating to protect against the salt water 5) large radiator or tow package 6) a good steel chassis to hang a good receiver hitch to it. 7) strong suspension 8) adequate seating for crew. These are just suggestions, make your own list. Tundras are assembled in the US as well as Ford, Chrysler and GM and may only have a little more Japanese contents than the others, not much. For years we towed with a 1973 Chevrolet Impala 4 door sedan with a beefed up suspension but they don't make cars like that anymore.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
It sounds like you have a fairly informed opinion about the quality & reliability of various vehicles. If someone were looking to buy a short bed half ton standard cab 4x4 pickup with 7,000# tow capacity, air conditioning & not a whole lot of other gizmos, which ones would you recommend?
I'm afraid while I can tell you what is un-reliable, simply based on how often we see vehicles in the shop, and the type of repairs. OTOH it is difficult to know what is a good truck, because we may simply not have enough customers with a specific vehicle.

For example, I had a 1996 5.2 litre Ram 1500 long bed, and loved it. After I retired it from a daily driver to a "tow+stuff", I admittedly would abuse it and it just kept going and going. Other than oem paint adhesion issues it was great.
I'd buy another one in a shot.
New rams… no thanks. They rust faster than before, have electrical issues (most common is their ill advised "integrated power module". "I'm sorry sir it's $700 to make your horn work"), and other flaws depending on drivetrain choice.

Personally I'd by an older diesel as a tow vehicle. Older means simpler designs.
In addition, when that specific design/drivetrain has been around for a while, you get to see what problems they have.
I've only purchased a vehicle brand new once, and won't again due to that, and simple depreciation

FWIW:
We have Subarus as our daily drivers, and only use our truck to tow the boat and other misc. things.
I currently have a 1998 Chev K2500 Extended Cab Diesel.
Cheap to buy, and with the right minor mods are reliable.
I paid $2,000 for the truck, and another on $2,000 on brakes and front end parts when I bought.
Amazingly for here, it has no body rust.
With an upgraded lift pump, harmonic balancer, PMD relocation, and good thermostat, it's nice and reliable.
(without those changes they can have issues)

If I could find an early 90's or late 2000 Ram 2500 Diesel, that was rust free, I'd buy it in a second.

Truthfully, If we don't start trailering our C22 more, I'd not "need" a truck. I'd simply rent one for the few times a year we tow the boat to the lake and back. We are 2 people in the city, with 4 vehicles and 2 motorcycles, so parking space is at a premium.

If you drive your truck daily, your needs may be different.

Simply.. older proven designs is what I look for in a vehicle. I avoid new designs+drivetrains like the plague.

IMMV

For years we towed with a 1973 Chevrolet Impala 4 door sedan with a beefed up suspension but they don't make cars like that anymore.
An Olds Vista Cruiser is one I think would make a great tow/travel car.
Buy one in very good condition, use it, and sell it for what you paid for it. :D
Fuel cost you say ? Since it's not a daily driver, who cares ?
You can buy a heck of a lot of fuel for the purchase/maintenance/depreciation price difference, compared to many of today's vehicles.

And you'd look oh so cool driving down the road with all that glass.
:D
 
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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
"I'm sorry sir it's $700 to make your horn work"), and other flaws depending on drivetrain choice.
The F350 (and probably other series) actually have three separate controllers for the wipers. It's kinda tough when you have to roll down the highway and pull the fuse to get the wipers to stop.
 

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,037
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Oh
The F350 (and probably other series) actually have three separate controllers for the wipers. It's kinda tough when you have to roll down the highway and pull the fuse to get the wipers to stop.
that is easy to fix, make a blade fuse on with a switch and double stick it someplace on the dash board, or drill an hole and mount it with label wipers off:)