Downwind side by side

Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
We often race against a Merit 25 that rates faster than us. While they might pull ahead upwind, we can catch them downwind if we play our cards right. Like last night, always gybing before them put them in our wind shadow after they gybed, and we slowly caught up. On the last gybe got to the leeward mark at the same time, separated by 4-5 feet. Always good to know your competition. The start of the video does not show them, but I could have handed the other skipper a beer.

 
May 17, 2004
5,031
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I'll admit, I was scared around 1:40. Looked pretty tight in there even though you had rights. Pretty impressive it all worked out and you came out ahead.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
It did look fun and kudos to your crew, they looked and acted with confidence and practice.
Thanks for the video.
You and your crew are top notch.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
When I do that the tugboat usually starts blowing his horn, nicely done. Watched it five times, is that crew for hire.
 
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weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
at 1:40 looks like u had overlap, or is it just the camera's perspective?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I'll admit, I was scared around 1:40. Looked pretty tight in there even though you had rights. Pretty impressive it all worked out and you came out ahead.
It was kinda tight. But I know the other boat well, And we always had a bailout plan if they fouled us and didn't give us room. As it was I probably could have protested, but that would have accomplished nothing except cutting into drinking time!
 
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weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
Yes indeed we were overlapped and windward. ;-)
was referring to you being in the zone. I had watched it with the sound off the first time and didn't hear you yell for mark room. Evidently he gave you enuff, but it looked tight to me right at the mark.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Down this way when we’re pushed into the turn and about to trade paint we generally make reference to the questionable morals of a fella’s momma and accuse him of being the spawn of a dog! Congratulations on your disciplined restraint. YeeHaw that was X-cite-ting! Damn!
 
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Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
As soon as he tried to turn you had him with the overlap... nice.. What happened on the upwind leg.. did you score enough at the leeward mark to hold him off?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
was referring to you being in the zone. I had watched it with the sound off the first time and didn't hear you yell for mark room. Evidently he gave you enuff, but it looked tight to me right at the mark.
Yea, we were overlapped most of that video. As we we got close to the zone he turned up (with rights) because he didn’t want to make it too easy for us. But once we got to the zone he turned to the mark. He wasn’t leaving us enough room so I ‘reminded’ him!
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
As soon as he tried to turn you had him with the overlap... nice.. What happened on the upwind leg.. did you score enough at the leeward mark to hold him off?
Port was lifted so we went right. He followed on our hip, but for way too long. He could not fight through our Leebow. Eventually he tacked to take a hitch. We ended up beating him by 1:40
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Thou taketh your opponents air.... thou succeeds.... :yeah:
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Interesting that both of you seemed to be approaching the mark going dead downwind toward it. The J/70's seemed to be approaching from the stbd side. Not only were you dealing with the overlap and take down, both of you seemed to have extra gybes just before and at the mark. Your opponent seemed to make an effort to prevent your overlap but it seemed like they paid a penalty for it when the mainsail was on the wrong side and they had to make a late gybe in the middle of the take down. You didn't seem to mind that the jib was backwinded just before the rounding.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
How do you sort out the confusion? Ok, so at the beginning of the video both of you had your booms out to stbd and wind was from your port side, making the other guy the leeward boat, right? It appeared that you definitely gybed to put the wind on your stbd side while the other boat seemed to drift toward your line, but they were manually holding their boom at the centerline to keep it from gybing over. Eventually, they finally had to let it go and it swung to the same side as yours just before you got to the mark. So wouldn't you then be the leeward boat? I understand that the wind is behind you and they were slightly ahead of you, but doesn't the boom position basically determine who is windward / leeward? I would guess that you were leeward as soon as they were forced to manually restrain their boom. Also, while they were restraining their boom and your wind was clearly on stbd side, didn't you then have rights? It begs the question, why were they trying to restrain their boom from swinging to the port side as they were clearly trying to do at the 1:40 view?
That late gybe that they made (they couldn't restrain it any longer) seemed to put them in the position of both being to windward and having to give you room. You didn't seem to flinch as you stayed your course (perhaps you wanted to get a bit more to stbd) and they eventually had to stay out of the way, so was there a clear reason to protest if you chose to do so? I guess if you touched the mark, you might have protested immediately.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Indeed a lot going on.

At the start of the video we are on his hip and windward same tack. He has rights of course and could take us up, but that would only to slow us BOTH down. So he's resigned to his fate and knows he will owe us mark room. But he did push us up while we close in an attempt to get over us, but that didn't happen. So we went down to the mark like that, until just before the zone, he comes up again, just to make our life a bit more difficult. All good racing.

At the 3-length zone we are inside and overlapped, the 'snapshot' is taken; he owes us mark room from that point on, no matter the ROW situation. He has to allow us to make a seaman-like rounding. Initially he drives straight at the mark, not leaving us any room. Maybe he thought he was faster. That's when I called for room and turned slightly down at the mark to avoid a collision. That was a foul, but mark room is a funny thing in the protest room. Even more to the point, technically after we gybed we had ROW and mark room, but all we wanted to do then was get around cleanly and in front of them. If he had forced me to touch then things get interesting for sure. Not sure why he held his boom back. Slowed him down. Yes the jib is perfectly happy being backwinded like that . We leave it over in those situations so the foredecker has room to get the kite down the hatch.
 
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