I found on the Hunter water ballast if you knew how to properly flake a mainsail, it was faster and easier than messing with lazy jacks. I concur with the larger boats it is easier to work with but on small boats, keep it KISS just like Jon said.
Lazy jacks
- Thread starter Willemvan
- Start date
Is that unique to the Hunter, or any small boat? I can't imaging it being easier without lazyjacks unless you always sail in perfect conditions and always have help on board. Oh, and always drop your sail in wide open water on an empty lake.
You know, I'm also curious how you get the topping lift attached to the boom so you can drop the sails, when you have to drop the sails going down wind on a channel that starts out at about 100 ft wide and narrows down to 50ft usable. Keeping it simple to me, means having something to catch the sail so it is not blown all over the deck. Scrambling around a deck like a mad man seems like an awful way to end a peaceful day of sailing.
You know, I'm also curious how you get the topping lift attached to the boom so you can drop the sails, when you have to drop the sails going down wind on a channel that starts out at about 100 ft wide and narrows down to 50ft usable. Keeping it simple to me, means having something to catch the sail so it is not blown all over the deck. Scrambling around a deck like a mad man seems like an awful way to end a peaceful day of sailing.
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Topping lift never comes off the boom.Ours has a cheek block on the back of the boom, and a cleat about midway. I loosen it up once the sails are up, and tighten it back up when dropping them.
I do have lazzy jacks though, and could definitely see their necessity if you regularly needed to drop sails downwind in a narrow channel.
I installed lazy jacks against advice only to remove them except in one case over the years. Regardless where you are at, you first furl in the jib or drop it while pointing into the wind. I had the motor running of course to help depending on the wind conditions and then flicked the main halyard to drop the mainsail and started flaking it and tying it. The question of course was how to hold up the boom. Some add the expensive boom kickers but I as a dealer always provided extra gear at no cost to include a Ronstan V Jam block affixed to the rear of the boom leading the topping lift line thru that block exiting out on the V Jam. That was so simple to adjust the boom height. To keep the line from coming out all the way I put a stopper knot at the end of the line so the boom if accidentally knocked loose from the V jam would not fall onto the boat nor enough to hurt anyone. Here is a picture of that block.
At that point I started flaking or folding the sail starting at the back pulling backwards and folding and tying in two or three areas with a tie of sort noting the folds got smaller going forward and battens in line with the boom. Worked like a charm.
At that point I started flaking or folding the sail starting at the back pulling backwards and folding and tying in two or three areas with a tie of sort noting the folds got smaller going forward and battens in line with the boom. Worked like a charm.
Attachments
Lazy jacks might be better than nothing, but nothing compares to a Dutchman sail flaking system. If you have a good mast track system, all you do is release the main sheet and your mainsail flakes itself neatly on your boom. Nothing to snag like with lazy jacks. Contact your local sailmaker.
http://dutchmar.com/sail-flaking-system
http://dutchmar.com/sail-flaking-system
As a practice this seems amazingly dangerous. Any wind shift or puff will catch you stern-to the wind with your main up, traveler locked and halyard open. Ten things could happen then, and they're all bad.
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yeah, what jackdaw said. plus, dropping the main down wind means chaffing of the sail on the rig. not my sails
I had lazy jacks on the Mac26 and I agree, even on smaller boats it makes life easier. The Hunter has the Dutchman system and it is even better than lazy jacks IMHO. More involved to install, but simpler to use. No snagging of the battens.
for lazy jacks & a sailpack, even my H27. Now I don't have yards of cloth blocking my view, the sailpack helps the new sail flake itself and I just zip it shut. Yes, you have to pay attention when raising them, but you kinda hafta pay attention while you're sailing anyways. I think they simplify things, not complicate them.
I have found it impossible to get the sail to stay on the boom. I've tried it in the driveway. It simply falls off. I can maybe get two flakes, before the weight of the sail drops the whole thing to one side of the boom or the other.
I really don't understand the resistance to something that is such a major help and a significant time saver. Especially if you ever sail in adverse conditions. Getting the sail down quickly, so it is not providing windage is absolutely critical if you ever get caught in a surprise squall. When we got hit with winds in the 50s, it was a mad scramble to get the sails down. No time to put the motor in the water. The absolute most critical thing was to get the sails down and secure. I can't image the mess I would have had, had I not had the lazy jacks to secure the sail. The main would have been all over, and very difficult to tie off.
Mine, with 4 legs, are pretty simple and easy to put together. 1/4" nylon line and simple hardware.
I made them retractable so I don't deal with raising my full battened main, between lazy jacks. I lower and gather the legs of the jacks, and run them under their hoist-cleats, once the sail is tied to cover.
The main on my boat is difficult to furl, especially single handed. Lazy jacks aren't perfect but they can help tame your mainsail. Be sure to mock them up so you can move locations around until you get it right, before drilling holes.
I am talking about smaller boats folks regarding lazy jacks. I concur on the bigger boats but what I discussed above worked well for me on the smaller trailerable boats only and that included the Hunter 26/260. If you see a storm coming, well most of the time you have some notice. The key to flaking is fold and pull back several times and tie and keep moving forward doing the same but the key here is to move quickly and of course pulling the sail back at the same time. I use to put ties around my neck or had them in my pocket ready to tie.
Again, the perfect solution is the Dutchman Sail Flaking System. Release the main halyard and the sail fall and flakes itself. In the interest of honesty, I retired from Dutchman seven years ago and designed the sail layouts for sailmakers. Designed and installed properly, it is all but flawless.
Ditto Dave. I've been carrying the flag for the Dutchman system here on SBO, sometimes alone, for years. I liked mine on the Mark 25 I owned, which had a huge mainsail that would have been potentially hard to handle without the Dutchman. Not to start a fight, but after owning an in mast furling system, I would prefer the Dutchman every day. Ok, I did just start a fight ...
The main problem with in-mast furling is poor sail shape due to a lack of battens. In boom furling is better, in my opinion. But a Dutchman is best because it adds almost zero weight to the rig.
Part of the key to proper operation of the Dutchman is having the design for your sail done by Dutchman. This is done at no charge to ensure your sail flaking system operates properly. Some sailmakers wing it with varying results. Some disastrous.
Since I've retired, I've been very busy. I fixed up an old trawler, my wife and I cruised it down the eastern seaboard, we bought and worked land in upstate New York, and now I'm a writer. So I don't know who is doing the designs now, but I'm sure it is someone capable.
A Dutchman is not only an option with most new sails, but it can also be retrofitted to an old sail as long as it is not a dishrag. It should have some stiffness left to it.
Dutchman may be perfect for a cruiser, but if you have a roachy main, forget it. Yes, it is a neat system. I sailed on a 70 footer that had that setup, and I could see it would work well for some sail, but nothing with a decent roach.
BTY: Yes, CDC, I could see the storm coming, but I could not estimate the winds, nor our inability to manage them. We were on our way in, but not making headway fast enough. That lake is known for surprise squalls. That was the first time I had seen anything like that out on the water, so was not able to know what we are were in for. I just don't see sailing as a nice pretty sport with everything being predictable. Yes, you plan and prepare, but things happen out there. Your systems have to be in place for when things go wrong.
BTY: Yes, CDC, I could see the storm coming, but I could not estimate the winds, nor our inability to manage them. We were on our way in, but not making headway fast enough. That lake is known for surprise squalls. That was the first time I had seen anything like that out on the water, so was not able to know what we are were in for. I just don't see sailing as a nice pretty sport with everything being predictable. Yes, you plan and prepare, but things happen out there. Your systems have to be in place for when things go wrong.
@Dave Gibson ,
That's very interesting. What would be some of the design elements that Dutchman would design in (or out) of a mainsail that mainstream designer would not??
Thanks!