How much wind is too much?

Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
I am sure this has been asked many times...
and I did find it (to some extent on another forum) but not really what I was looking for.

So How much wind is too much? (obviously sea state matters)
does boat size matter?
Obviously captain and crew matter. Obviously the ability to reef matters. But what else comes into play?

Does having a larger genoa affect it's ability to be reefed (furled)? Obviously it will not be as efficient furled but what else.

obviously running with the wind is easier than beating into it....

Where do others call it a sit and chill day and wait it out?
 
Jun 10, 2017
174
Catalina 1980 Catalina 30 Mk II John's Pass / Tampa Bay
Allow,

The wind is the wind.
How you do sail sets are a product of pre-setting sails.
Sure a furling jib works, but only if you set it early
before the shizz hits the fan & maybe expecting stronger conditions will grow.

Mother Nature is a bitch therefore, what she sends your way is what you need to deal with.
I tell folks that it's easier to let out sail, then to retrieve it if in harsh conditions.

Trust your instincts beforehand reading wind & weather at first thought.
If you question whether to leave out or shorten sail knot knowing what the conditions will be,
shorten sails first, then it's much easier to let out sail after seeing what the conditions become.

This has always worked for me & I am NEVER caught off guard.
Always Sail safe & Sail Smart Beforehand.............while you still have the time to.
 
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Jan 5, 2017
2,263
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
I have sailed in sustained winds of 57kts. I'd prefer not to do that again. The boat handled it well but I have my doubts about the Captain (me) and crew.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
This is an unanswerable question. I've used to own a 22 ft. boat with hanked on head-sails that I could easily handle in 30+ wind and 4' chop.... and I now have a 26' boat with roller head-sail that requires reefing at about 12 mph and it is time to go in when it hits 20. Every boat is different. And how you have the sails set up makes a huge difference. My present head sail is nearing the end of its life.. and I am seriously considering going back to hanked on sails.

I believe the trick to sailing in higher wind is tied to your ability to keep the boat moving forward with power on the sails. If the boat can punch through the waves and go FORWARD you heel less and the ride is more comfortable. So having a head sail that you can change out for a smaller sail (or even one with a reef point) is a good move if you like to sail in stronger wind. Likewise, a second set of reefs in the main is a good move to.

Then there is the reefing set up. If you have hanked on head-sails, ..... you should have a down haul? It makes life easy. And if you have a second jib halyard installed, then switching out the head sail is much easier if you have it partially set up in advance.
 
Apr 11, 2010
946
Hunter 38 Whitehall MI
When you decide that if someone could get you off the boat right that second you would give them the boat for change in their pocket.
Seriously though it depends on so many factors that it's hard to say. If you are talking about being in port and deciding to go out or not you'll have a different answer than if you are already out and the wind really kicks up.
 
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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Interesting timing.
The forecast is for very strong NNE winds (20 to 35) for our charter starting Wednesday. We have absolutely no choice to go, or we'd be out of business in a heartbeat. So we bent on the staysail and plan to fly a postage stamp of a main and hope we don't break any gear. However, we rarely leave an anchorage without a deep reef in our main, and sometimes even a reefed Yankee jib. It's a lot easier to shake out a reef if conditions are better than expected, than it is to put one in if they are worse.
In Alaska we operated charter passenger vessels of 39 feet daily, in weather that an 81 foot 3 mast passenger schooner wasn't allowed to leave the dock in, by the insurance company, in Charleston, SC.
I've had a bit of sail up in 70 knots on this 53 footer on the way to Bermuda, without any problems, though it certainly wasn't any fun. I sailed plenty of boats under 20 feet in 25 to 30 knots on the Bay, when I was a teen.
I think that is a question you must answer for yourself. Nobody but you knows YOUR capabilities or limitations, but I'd venture a guess that for most of us, our boats can take more than we are willing to put them into.
 
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DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,691
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
When you have to change your shorts.
This is the real answer ^^^

I've sailed my boat in 50 knots, 6 foot chop and felt fairly comfortable. My (now ex) wife was not quite so comfortable. I was very happy I had the 2nd reef in the main that day. If the waves were bigger I'm sure it would not be as fun. Roland's answer is more true than you might think, although the boat can make a big difference, it probably depends more on the skipper than the boat. If you are thinking the brown pants would be a good idea, think twice before heading out.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
does boat size matter?
Not size so much as construction. Small, light boats tend to Bob on top of big waves more than big boats. Shorter spars and smaller sails experience much less force in a capsize or swamping. Read Sven Yrvind's blog on small boat sailing. In either case. A boat needs to be designed to take those forces and self-righting is pretty important. Catamarans,obviously, suffer from that deficiency, but they do really well in big weather.
Does having a larger genoa affect it's ability to be reefed (furled)?
Yes, but that can be overcome with the right rig and crew.
Obviously it will not be as efficient furled
Who cares about efficiency in an emergency?
obviously running with the wind is easier than beating into it....
Easier, maybe, but not necessarily better. Following seas are hell. Broaching seas are worse.
I would call it above 20 knots in a boat like Dragonfly, depending on where I'm sailing. Less if there was little seaway or big waves.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
A boat needs to be designed to take those forces and self-righting is pretty important. - Will (Dragonfly)
Unless a sailboat is in a down draft, I believe at some point the windward rail should break the wind getting to the sails, in flat water conditions, if blown onto her beam ends. This should give an able crew a few seconds to ease the sheets and allow the boat to come back up. The problems arise when the crew becomes frozen by the circumstances, and fail to take action quickly enough.
Honestly Will, I can't think of a single seagoing monohull that isn't designed to be self-righting. Can you? One of the great feature of the older boats was having a tree for a main mast! I can tell you from experience that that is a lot of buoyancy when it's driven underwater in a capsize at sea. Not so much with an alloy spar. lol
 
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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
So How much wind is too much? (obviously sea state matters)
does boat size matter?
Obviously captain and crew matter. Obviously the ability to reef matters. But what else comes into play?
there are so many variables to consider with the question, that there is little that can be said in answer without having more information, or having a specific question to answer.
assuming the boat is out and cruising away from the dock, it ALL matters... and the only simple answer that will fit the question is "when the boat reaches the point of catastrophic failure"... then you know you have had too much wind.
this may happen sooner with a green crew than it will with a seasoned crew, but if you were to read a couple books about storms at sea in a sailboat, you may come to understand that skill and readiness (offshore experience) is the biggest part, but during a storm or hurricane, luck can be just as important... and ALL experienced sailors wills will agree that the luck one gets is proportional to their skill and readiness.. and just because you are highly skilled and ready does NOT mean you are going to have any luck.
a lot of us have been boating/sailing on the ocean, and some of us have been out there during a storm, and there just isnt no way to describe the difficulties of just being out there getting thrashed about in the constant, endless and sometimes severe motion, let alone trying to make the best decisions keep the boat together and survive the situation... and not really knowing if you will. you cannot learn what 30ft waves are, and what they do, from a book.... and the experience of learning it first hand is not fun.
I have never sailed in these conditions, but I have worked on ocean going tugs and fishing boats, and I can only wonder how the world cruising sailors, of which many have written books, handle these conditions in their little sailboats.

maybe the question would be better asked, "what is the strongest wind one would want to sail in?"... there are still variables, but much easier to give a reasonable answer to without knowing more of the variables.
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,727
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
My first boat was a Hunter 280, so probably similar to your Catalina 27 (?).

I was certainly not experienced (first sail boat), and I was apprehensive to take it out in winds over 20 knots. A friend coaxed me out one day in 25 knot winds with the advice to “use tiny sails”. It was actually a fun sail for my son and I, and it built some confidence. Sea state was not an issue since it was a south wind and I am on the south end of Lake Michigan.

My current boat, and O’Day 322 is certainly heavier and I have had her out in 30 + knot winds.

Not sure if it is the boat or a captain with more experience.

Greg
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I agree with most comments about limitations of boat, crew, and perhaps unexpected events.
I am sure most Captains have thought about what could his boat and crew could take.
I know I have.

I had the privilege of a private message with a Captain who owns the H430 built in the same year as mine.
He has logged 26,000+ sailing miles on our model craft. [Me, maybe 500 miles]
My curiosity on this thread topic, as the OP has, prompted my Questions...
1) What was the biggest waves taken? Ans: 20ft.
2) What is the highest safe winds? Ans: With full OEM sails, you can't put the "rails" in the water.
3) How did the H430 handle the worst conditions? Ans: The boat fine, in-fact you can exceed hull speed.:waycool:

From a retired couple who spent 35 year in charter of their 36' cutter in Bahamas, Caribbean, etc ...
How many storms have you encountered while sailing? Ans: One

Now to maybe answer your question from ME and the Admiral and potential crew view...

We will not go out, if we can't enjoy eating a sandwich and have a beverage during a sail.:)

That doesn't mean we are fair weather sailors only, but we plan for safe anchorage or shelter in case of changing seas. We have been caught is severe squalls, lightning and unexpected sea states. No biggie since we trust our craft and ourselves. We prepare!

Obviously it is our personal choice, which is the really the true answer. As a great movie quote...

"Choose Wisely"

Jim...
 
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May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
What is too much wind? Probably the wind that caught you out there and makes you wish you were safely tied up at the dock. Quoting an specific wind speed is only useful for the guy at the dock making a decision whether to go out or not; like you say that wind speed will vary by boat, crew experience and condition of the seas. First let me clear a couple of things, 1) boat size matters a lot and 2) running is mostly not easier or safer than beating into the wind. Stability ratios are like percentages, the numbers may sound impressive until it is defined what they mean in real terms. 20% of a Dollar is 20 cents, hardly a matter to loose sleep over; by the same token a 25' boat with a capsize ratio of 1.90 it is still a 25' boat. I will take any day the 30' or 40' boats with capsize ratios of 2.0 in offshore waters. On the matter of running with the wind, every squall has a duration and if you run with it you will be in it longer than if you went across it. Running with the wind brings a difficulty of speed control and bears an inherent danger for broaching. Depending on sea conditions the best alternative could be heaving to. Crew experience is likely the most important factor followed by boat quality and size. Sometimes we look at a forecast and say, "nah, not today" and others we see the same forecast and say "let's go out there to hone our foul weather skills". Yes, if you don't use them you loose them. About wind forecasts, they are usually wrong so go out there expecting more and you will not be surprised.