Sad Death

Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Today's Annapolis Gazette paper has a story about a 25 year-old marine technician who was winterizing a boat engine. The boat had been shrink-wrapped. He was inside, running the engine for who know how long. When found, he was dead from the exhaust that had found it's way into the salon. Now , the parents expect some safety practices be created. Anyone hear of such death- or near death- happing this way?
 
Jan 5, 2017
2,263
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
Tragic. When working in confined spaces we always used large (2ft dia.) ducted fans to bring in fresh air. Any engine uses a lot of air when running, let alone the chance of an exhaust leak or the breeze driving the exhaust back into the boat.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Really sad... If I were working on a shrink wrapped boat and had to run the engine, I'd be going through a checklist... Intake? Is it wrapped or can it breathe? Engine room fans and or bilge fans? Same question. Exhaust is usually overboard discharge not covered by the wrap but it could be but I'm going to check it. Obviously still need water intake for cooling which will be freshwater hose supplied... Then check for exhaust leaks upon start up (with respiratory PPE). The last part, I just don't think people take seriously. Also, Carbon Monoxide alarms. I'd bring my own!
 
Mar 31, 2013
234
O'day 23 Pa
Not sure if you have anything similar in the states. but in the UK they would rule such a death as "death by mis adventure" , should have known the risks but for some reason either forgot or ignored, still very sad
 
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Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
I think the personal carbon monoxide alarm is a great idea. There are also other multi-gas detectors like the ones we use to go into places like man holes where many types of gas can be present. The big thing is oxygen percentage in the environment. The criteria is between 19.5 and 23.5. An alarm will sound if the level is out side those boundaries. That being said I have never thought of the interior of my boat as a confined space. It actually doesn't meet the definition. Go to this link and go straight to definitions on page three.
https://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3138.pdf
Perhaps we should look to have something more than a smoke/carbon monoxide detector in our boats.
Very sad about a young life lost.
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Seems that a set of standards or set of procedures should be developed for maintenance facilities to use while winterizing if you're running the engine on a hauled out boat whether shrink wrapped or not wrapped. I would be very surprised if NIOSH or OSHA doesn't already has standards for this type of task. This should be a two man job, one person outside the boat monitoring while the other works inside the cabin. Even if the boat is not shrink wrapped, there are factors that many of you have detailed, such as exhaust leaks in the onboard systems, engine consuming large amounts of air, and possibly CO being blown back into the boat as the boat is stationary. A fresh air blower should be required; however, CO can be introduced back into the cabin by way of the blower because the boat is stationary. Again, in addition to taking all of the precautions, a second worker should be present to monitor the work. This isn't as hazardous as working in a confined tank where continuous testing of air quality is required and fresh air has to be circulated in the tank for a set time period prior to entry and during the work procedure, and another worker has to be positioned outside the tank to monitor; however, some of the same danger elements apply to working in a confined cabin with the engine running. If a second worker was on the scene in this case, he could have shut down the engine and evacuated the victim to fresh air and a hospital if necessary. This reminds me of an incident years ago when a friend's brother was installing marine carpeting in a run about while inside a confined garage. He was working alone and was under the forepeak area when he was overcome noxious fumes from the carpet glue. By the time someone found him he was dead.
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
If a second worker was on the scene in this case, he could have shut down the engine and evacuated the victim to fresh air and a hospital if necessary.
Going to have to strongly disagree. Unless you have a self contained oxygen source you should never go into a confined space to retrieve someone who has succumbed to an unknown toxin. This has resulted in many deaths of Rescuers becoming Victims. Of course I still don't consider the cabin of a vessel to be a confined space as it is specifically built for human habitation.
 
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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Death happens ALL the time, but a death like this one is such a sad occurrence because it was completely needless and could have been so simply avoided...
one doesnt get to be a technician without knowing about the dangers of carbon monoxide.

we hear of deaths ALL the time from carbon monoxide poisoning, and there ARE rules to follow to prevent it from happening.... and by following the safety guidelines, it is 100% preventable.

what no law, training or rule can do is make people follow the rules... because carbon monoxide is odorless and invisible, and its presence can go undetected undetected until its too late, too many people think the warnings and procedures to follow are over-exaggerated... BUT THEY ARE NOT!!!

there has been discussions on this site about the dangers of CO poisoning (and numerous other sites the world over) and even though those discussions are now just history, the content and warnings within them will be as factual at the end of time as what they were when written.... and ANYONE who feels they will be able to tell when CO poison is creeping up on them are only victims that still have a chance to survive to old age.

its a rare instance where someone survives CO poisoning, and even more rare that someone escapes without some degree of brain damage... so whats the point in wanting to survive the poisoning if you could?

how "the exhaust found its way in" to cause the death of the technician as described is not left to ponder, but it was sucked in by the intake of the running engine.... it was was undoubtedly CO poisoning that got him, but which would have been made worse by the consumption of the oxygen as it was ingested into the engine... once the O2 is down to a minimum, the CO output by the engine increases exponentially, and the atmosphere very quickly turns deadly....

the marine technician forgot to pay attention to his chance to live to a ripe old age lost his life, but for the rest of us, we still have that chance to heed the warnings THAT WE HAVE ALL HEARD, and to take them as seriously as death itself.... and live accordingly.
 
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Jan 5, 2017
2,263
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
I still don't consider the cabin of a vessel to be a confined space as it is specifically built for human habitation.
As soon as you shrink-wrap it, it becomes confined. It's all about air circulation.
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Never heard of this boat injury. There are already laws regarding identification and safe working conditions for Confined Space workplaces. Boating industry trades could address this with a simple accident report and reminder regarding what constitutes confined space. This incident could be the nucleus of a SOP regarding why you don’t work on a wrapped boat without vent and air monitoring. Lots of boating trades are jack-leg contracting with little to no formal safety training, or ongoing briefings. Doing this job right should have cost the owner a lot to get it done safely.
 
Jul 13, 2010
1,097
Precision 23 Perry Hall,Baltimore County
This should have made the TV news here, first I heard of it is reading this. This event needs public exposure as a safety lesson.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
This incident was and has been discuss in ABYC training. If it's the same incident it appears the shrink wrap covered the exhaust outlet... Winterizing shrink wrapped boats is not uncommon as the race to cover, by the cover crew, competes directly with the guys who perform the actual winterization. Covering a boat should never block a bilge outlet or exhaust outlet of any type but sadly it does with far too much regularity...

When I work on boats in an anchorage, on the hard, or situations that require me to run my portable gen set, or any engine, I carry a hand held industrial CO detector.

I am always shocked at how many boats do not have any CO detector at all. About 60% of the boats I set foot on, that also have a portable generator, DO NOT HAVE ANY CO DETECTOR!

The use of portable gas generators on a boat is insane enough to begin with, but to then use them without any CO detection is Darwin Award level insane. Even then, the ones a boat owner would use are "averaged" and most industrial types are instantaneous. I can literally have my Honda genny running in my work skiff, tied 25' off the stern of a moored boat and my CO detector goes off due to "station wagon effect".

Before we all beat up the tech who died, or the industry for not doing enough, how many who've posted in this thread actually have a current (not expired) marine CO detector on-board. Heck how many even have a land-based CO detector on-board?
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The problem here is that the kid was working for a company which operates a limo service and a boat winterization business. A real brain trust! Why does it matter? He was working in the text-book definition of a Confined Space. I have heard nothing that suggests he had any safety training or would even be capable of identifying a confined space, how to do air monitoring or mitigate dangerous gas buildup. He didn’t have a support buddy. You are free to make stupid deadly mistakes on your own, but when you work for someone else they have culpability.
 
Sep 20, 2006
2,912
Hunter 33 Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
Before we all beat up the tech who died, or the industry for not doing enough, how many who've posted in this thread actually have a current (not expired) marine CO detector on-board. Heck how many even have a land-based CO detector on-board?

I do !!!!
Couple years ago I actually read my Insurance Policy, when they added a warranty stating the boat shall be equipped with ALL required safety gear, otherwise Insurance null and void. Replaced all CO with new MARINE Grade CO detectors. You want to bet any Insurance Adjuster will look for any cause to deny coverage. I also happened to be involved in an Insurance claim through work where Insurance denied coverage due to warranty not being met even tho was not related to claim.
 

MitchM

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Jan 20, 2005
1,011
Nauticat 321 pilothouse 32 Erie PA
in my career as a consulting engineer we were called to investigate deaths in a house in WV. 2 young women went home from work on the 1st cold day of the year and never showed up the next day. after the coroner removed them, 3 insurance adjusters and i went to inspect. i carried a CO meter. there was a gas fired space heater in the living room, vented up through the chimney of the fireplace (which is illegal under the BOCA building code.) we fired up the heater, i watched the CO meter rapidly peg to 600 ppm and ordered everyone OUT fast. it turns out that the top of the gas vent was plugged by a bird's nest and debris. we were nauseated and had bad headaches, but we all survived .. and we were only in there 5 minutes. (and NB: YES we have CO monitors in 2 places on the boat, 2 on the RV and wired in the house with battery back up.) in another incident , a plumbing company had installed a gas fired heater in a fancy hobby garage . the vent pipe was improperly installed and extended only 12 inches high. insufficient draft did not allow CO to escape; the owner was found dead in his garage.
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
One of the definitions of a confind spaced is that it is “not intended for human occupancy”. I left a link in my original post. That rules out the cabin of a boat as a confined space. The problem was man made and in working in unknown locations it is sensible to carry testers that increase ones safety. Maine isn’t just by the book he can write a book. We all tend to be complacent when it comes to safety items as they are both an expense and perceived to be a user of our valuable time. In reality a few minutes of precaution can save a lifetime of problems or in this case a life. Hopefully this thread will help save someone from a bad situation. @Maine Sail which detector do you use?
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Going to have to strongly disagree. Unless you have a self contained oxygen source you should never go into a confined space to retrieve someone who has succumbed to an unknown toxin.
:plus::plus:

And he should have never done that alone.
_____
The very first thing I do is VENT my closed cabin with the engine/genset blowers.
The Admiral invariably asks me what that noise is.

CO is just one of many possible vapor problems. Detectors or not.
Jim...
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
One of the definitions of a confind spaced is that it is “not intended for human occupancy”...That rules out the cabin of a boat as a confined space..
Wrong. A shrink-wrapped boat with limited ingress/egress is no longer a boat cabin, it is a confined space. If you start the engine in that confined space you have a permit-required confined space.
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
It’s not worth an argument Gunni. I go into confined spaces as part of my job. It was a hazardous space but not a confined spaced by definition, not even if you properly shrink wrap it.