Engine problems

Nov 30, 2016
10
Beneteau 1993 265 first Houston
I own a 265 first. Just found out my engine needs to be rebuilt, for a cost around $5000 for top end only. It has a volvo penta 1 culinder 10hp engine.
Is it better to buy new or rebuilt engine complete?
There was corrosion in the line and water got to the cylinder, causing push rod, piston and cylinder damage. The work is not guaranteed, if theres other corrosion in bottom end.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
A challenging decision. It is a boat so no best answers. Just compromise decisions and questions.
  1. Are you happy with the boat?
  2. Is it the boat you plan to keep for another 10 years? If so then the cost is $500 a year to have an engine.
  3. New engines may be more.
  4. Do you need an engine? Can you sail the boat off the dock?
 
Nov 30, 2016
10
Beneteau 1993 265 first Houston
I want to upgrade to s bigger boat
The boat will not run! No compression
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,892
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
WOOF ! $5K for a top end rebuild..!! That mechanic is telling you subtly that he does not want to do that work ! OUCH.
 
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Jan 25, 2011
2,399
S2 11.0A Anacortes, WA
You talk about corrosion in the line.. I’m assuming you mean in the liner so this is an external liner engine? With the damage you describe, you would replace the liner, piston, rings, valve train parts leaving the block on the mounts. That’s everything that gets good compression. If its raw water cooled, how is the jacket? I would have an oil analysis done which would somewhat indicate the health of the bearings. When it was running, was there any bearing knock? Was the oil pressure normal? If so, it may be OK to get the indicated work done. However, $5K seems a bit much for that work. It should be guaranteed. I used to have a Volvo 3 cyl. I could have that engine torn down to the pistons in half day easily...John has good points. What are your plans for the boat?
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
No mechanic can tell if the cylinder and rings are gone if there is NO compression with out taking the head off which I assume has not happened. If you have LOW compression that MAY indicate piston ring problems but it could also be a leaky valve. Try the easy things first, for $5K you can learn how engines work.
Does the engine crank?
If yes, pull the valve cover and check the operation of the valves. If no then pull the injector and try turning the crank again, if still does not turn then pour a small amount of crank case oil into the injector hole and take a coffee break. Try moving the crank back and forth to free it up.
To check the valve note that each moves once in two crankshaft rotations.
Once you determine the valve are ok and the crank is free to turn let us know what you found and we can diagnose further
things to watch for;
is there a grinding/sandpaper feel to the crank when you turn it by hand?
do both valves move the same amount in two revolutions of the crankshaft?
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
as a mechanic that has done a few boat engines for hire, I dont think the price is too far out of line... but that depends on if the boat is in the mechanics yard, if the mechanic is traveling to the boat, or if the customer brings the engine in on a pallet...

anyone in business doing a job for hire has to account for their time, and it goes both ways... if the potential customer wants an accounting for every hour he has to pay for, the mechanic wants paid for for every hour he has into doing the job correctly.

when one considers the time it takes for the mechanic to leave his shop, and travel to the boat, then remove the engine, and get it off the boat and up the dock to his vehicle, and travel back to his shop... then disassemble the engine, clean it all up and order and pay for new parts, have the machine work done, install new parts and reassemble... then take it all back down to the boat, install the motor, probably have to fiddle with the motor mounts to set it up correctly, maybe replace some exhaust components, and then test run it all after the engine and the boat has all been connected back together properly.... 5000 doesnt seem too bad of an estimate.

I will agree that if an owner wants to do it all themselves, there is a huge savings, as long as they dont try to take a shortcut and miss something critical that causes the engine to fail...
and most owners that have done it themselves have not kept time of every hour they spent on the doing it, from the very start to the very end after the test run has been finished...

if one brings the boat into the mechanics yard, then there is the travel time savings to the marina, BUT, tools are still going to have to be carried to the boat, and the engine still needs to be removed.
if the customer were to remove the motor and bring it in on a pallet, which im sure is the preferred way by any mechanic, it will be the most cost effective for everyone, providing the customer gets the engine set up correctly during the re-installation process....

average hourly cost for a mechanic $85
parts cost for that engine approx $800, depending on how hard you shop prices, which takes time, no matter who does it..

then take into account that any good mechanic will give an estimate that is a bit high, because AFTER the job is complete, its always good to be able to tell the customer that the job was completed within the estimated cost, and sometimes a bit less...
which is a huge contrast to those mechanics that give a lowball estimate in an attempt to get the job... then when the job is complete he has to add on another grand or two over the estimate just to cover his costs.... and the customer is held hostage until they either pay or the court decides...

its simple economics... if you cant or dont want to do it yourself, you have to hire it done, and the lowball bidder is very, very rarely the most cost effective person to hire for the job.

for the record, I just did twin 318 mopar V8's in a 34' Silverton FB setting in the water at a marina... I gave an honest estimate of 5000 per engine, and I had to travel 125 miles one way to get there.
I removed, rebuilt (machine work was very necessary) and took them back to the boat, reinstalled and tuned/ran them...
after it was all done, there was no excess profit... I estimated 1 day to remove them and 2 days to reinstall... I hit my mark on the hours, and I did all the parts and machining costs during the estimating process, so no surprises there. (I knew what machining was needed because the owner took one of the engines apart in the engine bay, so I seen the damage... exhaust manifold failure and saltwater setting in the cylinders)

so how are you planning to present the "rebuild" job to the mechanic, and what part of it are you going to do yourself?...
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,069
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Very interesting, Centerline. I agree almost completely. I would offer that any trade or profession would prefer to have the job presented on a pallet for obvious reasons. Here's the but: Unless the technician controls the installation he is at risk for whatever goes wrong from his delivery on. Yes you can write contractual protections but the customer wants, in this case, his engine back and running smoothly. You can bench test it but neither you or the customer can know that it will run well after installation. From a business prospective this kind of work is a lose-lose proposition. Much better to do new work, run the whole process and charge for it. I think that's why it's $5000 for the repair. First rule of business is don't do dumb s**t.
 
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May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Well you want to upgrade to a bigger boat so there is no intention apparently to keep this boat. If what you are looking for is to be able to get the engine running so that you can get top dollar for the boat I would say your best options would be to rebuild or repower with a used engine. I would say before any decision can be made made the engine needs to be taken apart to fully asses the damage involved and a realistic estimate for parts and labor can be made. You want a good job so that you can continue to use the boat until you are ready to sell and to insure that the work brings value to the boat.
 
Jul 22, 2011
146
Mariner Yacht Co.(NH) Mariner 28 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
The old school way is to note the compression, pour a couple table spoons of engine oil into the cylinder. An increase in compression tends to mean rings are worn, no increase, tends to mean valves. I am not commenting on the mechanics estimate, but pouring $5,000 for head work into an older engine is risky. No assessment of the bottom end, no look at the transmission or clutch. For that money you are in reach of a new motor/transmission. You should be able to find a used Volvo 1 cy. for less that the cost of that valve job.
In fact, there are 2 single cyl volvos on ebay for $2550 as I type. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-MD-6A-Marine-Diesel-engine-with-transmission-/252792072104. That may be the less expensive way to go. For the record a new engine will not add much to your resale value. So figure your exposure for selling the boat with a bad engine vs. dumping thousands into it to sell it with a working engine.
You have some hard choices ahead, sorry to say.
Lou
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
You should be able to find a used Volvo 1 cy. for less that the cost of that valve job.

there are 2 single cyl volvos on ebay for $2550 as I type. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-MD-6A-Marine-Diesel-engine-with-transmission-/252792072104. That may be the less expensive way to go.

a new engine will not add much to your resale value. So figure your exposure for selling the boat with a bad engine vs. dumping thousands into it to sell it with a working engine.
Lou
I agree with everything....
although I was under the impression the mechanic quoted him for a rebuild, and not just a valve job....

as for buying a used engine, in my opinion, the only time it makes sense to replace a worn out but re-buildable engine with a "good" used one, is if you plan to sell the boat.
rebuilding it is usually cheaper then the purchase price of a used one, and it insures you have a good long life engine, IF taken care of properly..
the supposedly "good" used engine may be near the end of its useful life and all your efforts may be for naught... but when you sell the boat, the questionable engine becomes someone elses risk and worry...

the boat would undoubtedly have a higher value with a working engine, but no matter if the engine is new, or if it has 4000 hours on it (as long as it runs dependably), if its an older boat, it will have to be a very nice and well taken care of for a new engine to increase the monetary value more than a few hundred dollars.
but to the buyer of the boat, there is value in knowing the engine should last for quite some time without any worries..

to the OP, a lot does depend on the value of the boat in question, so as the owner of a boat with a non working engine, you have to pencil out the monetary value of the boat "AS IS", and the monetary value of the boat with a working engine.... if these numbers are substantially farther apart then the cost of the replacement engine, it will probably be worth doing the engine.. and if your not honest in your value calculations, you can quickly become upside down in the venture.
 
Jan 5, 2017
2,265
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
When my Universal needed a rebuild I was quoted $5000 as well. I thought that was too much so I took the engine home, down loaded the manual and did it myself. Cost about $500 in parts (Kabota Z-500). It was my first (and only) engine rebuild and I was surprised at how easy it was. Engine now has about 700 hrs. and runs like a top.
Not sure of the cost of Volvo parts but that may be an option.
 
Nov 26, 2012
1,653
Hunter 34 Berkeley
I am not a mechanic but somethings sounds "not right" I believe the "top end" refers to the head with the valves, etc. So, if the damage is to the pistons and connecting rods a top end rebuild will not address that. Either way, I'm betting you can get a working engine in your boat for much less either by finding a used engine or by getting a second opinion on the repair or partially doing the work yourself.
 

Gene S

.
Nov 29, 2015
181
Delphia 37 Tacoma
I wouldn't go looking for a used MD Volvo. They are pretty much obsolete. I'm no expert but how about a used 1 or 2 cy Yanmar?
 
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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Unless something VERY major has happened (cracked block, spun bearings....) it is always cheaper to DIY. You don't intend on keeping the boat so a generous mittenfull of DIY is probably the correct approach. It will also give you experience on motors that can come in handy later in your sailing life.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Wow Chip. That one sure has a pretty paint job. Not sure of the skills of the rebuild mechanic.
Good price. Half the cost of the the quote. All you need to do is marry it to the boat and your good to go.
 

pateco

.
Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
Wow Chip. That one sure has a pretty paint job. Not sure of the skills of the rebuild mechanic.
Good price. Half the cost of the the quote. All you need to do is marry it to the boat and your good to go.
Not rebuilt 2801 hrs since new in Sailboat application and was removed for repower. They say they have a matching pair, and Test run Video available by request.