A 2nd Joker Valve?

Jun 5, 2004
20
-Beneteau Oceanis 51.1 Chicago, IL
The Quiet Flush heads on my 2013 Beneteau 45 work without issues, no odors or vent hose clogs (2” vent hoses with corresponding Marelon through hulls.)

There appears to be a second joker valve, installed in the hose that goes from the macerator outlet at the toilet, to the top of the tank, just before the hose curves at the top to empty in to the holding tank. The holding tanks are above the toilet bowls, so the hose travels upward to the top of the tanks.

It looks like the 2nd joker valve is supposed to act almost as a check valve. Its time to replace the joker valves at each head. Are the 2nd joker valves proper plumbing or do I remove the 2nd joker valve and ensure the hose is properly cleared with a long push of the empty bowl button? As I said, the system has been working well for five seasons…
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,709
- - LIttle Rock
Not much can happen that I've never heard of before in the 30 years I've been involved in marine sanitation, but that is a new one! I suspect it's a PO's wacky effort to prevent a half-full tank from spilling into the toilet discharge hose when the boat is heeled and running back to the toilet. Remove it...it'll cause more problems than it solves. If that does turn out to be reason for it, there are better ways to solve the problem.
 
Jun 5, 2004
20
-Beneteau Oceanis 51.1 Chicago, IL
I am the original owner and a sister ship also has the same, so I believe the valve was installed by Beneteau. Picture attached. I’d be interested in your suggestions!
 

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Dec 2, 1997
8,709
- - LIttle Rock
It wouldn't surprise me if Beneteau installed it...boat builders are the WORST sanitation system designers/plumbers on the planet!

If the purpose is to prevent tank contents from running back to the toilet when the boat heels, there are two ways to prevent it:
1. Put a loop--doesn't have to be vented, just a loop--in the toilet discharge line immediately after the toilet that's higher than the top of the tank. If you already have a discharge vented loop in that line, that's all you need.
2. Relocate the discharge and vent fittings on the tank. Most likely they're outboard (away from the boat's centerline) on the top or on a vertical surface...so when the boat heels to that side tank contents run downhill into 'em. Relocating 'em to the INboard side of the tank--end, side or top--which is actually pretty easy to do on most boats, thanks to a li'l gadget called the Uniseal UNISEAL puts them where tank contents either flow away from 'em when heeled to one side, or has those lines running uphill when the boat heels to the other side. (This would also be an excellent time to upgrade the vent to 1".) I suspect you're gonna have to scratch your head to figure out what I'm describing...and it may require some conversation to figure out how best to do this on a particular boat, but I'm glad to help you sort it out.
 
Jun 5, 2004
20
-Beneteau Oceanis 51.1 Chicago, IL
Peggie:
Thank you for your kind offer. I do understand the concepts you discussed.
I’ll need to take some measurements and additional photos. The cabinets the holding tanks are located in leave very little room. The boat is also out of the water for winter, so it will have to wait until another trip to the yard.
Best.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,709
- - LIttle Rock
In that case, the simplest solution might be a loop--vented or not--in the discharge line as shown in the attached photo. (You should already have a VENTED loop in the intake if your toilet is a sea water toilet).
intake and discharge vented loops.jpg

This will give you the added advantage of reducing the amount of flush water needed 'cuz you'll only need to flush long enough--and you can use the dry mode--to push the bowl contents over the top of the loop....gravity will do the rest. Use the wet mode only to rinse behind the flush.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Just out of curiosity, what kind of problems could the current setup cause?
Given five seasons have gone by without incident, what's the motivation to fix the problem?
- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,709
- - LIttle Rock
Just out of curiosity, what kind of problems could the current setup cause?
Sea or hard water or just waste from insufficient flush water buildup, same as can happen in the joker valve coming out the toilet.... Waste passing through any joker valve will stretch the slit and "lips" over time, rendering it useless for the job it was installed to do--which in 5 seasons is guaranteed to be the case.... Another place where something that shouldn't have been flushed can create a clog.... And those are just my "top of the head" possibilities. I can prob'ly come up with 10 more if I take time to think about it...first time I've ever heard of it. That wouldn't be true if it were a good idea.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Thank you Peggy, for your response. I do all my own plumbing in my house but never had to do it for a boat. It sounds much more complicated.
-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,709
- - LIttle Rock
I do all my own plumbing in my house but never had to do it for a boat. It sounds much more complicated.
It really isn't. You just have to understand that every "device" in a house--toilets, faucets, stoves, refrigerators, even TVs--is just an appliance...the water and power are supplied by remote sources, sink and shower water and toilet waste go TO remote locations...the appliances are the only thing you have to deal with. But everything on a boat is one component in a complete system, and anything done to one component impacts the whole system. Once you recognize that, it becomes a lot easier to figure out what to do and how to do it right. Equipment owners manuals are very useful for that...and so is my book, btw. :pimp: