New instruments??

Jun 23, 2004
39
Hunter 34 Solomons MD
My '84 Hunter 34 needs new instruments. The question is what brand? Raymarine, Garmin, or B&G? I would like to install a knot, depth, wind, wheel autopilot, and chart plotter/GPS.

It would be nice to get the Raymarine Evolution EV-100 Wheel Sail Autopilot since I would not need to install a linear drive unit to the quadrant but I'm not hard up on that.

My concern with these manufacturers is I have heard of interface problems between the same and different manufacturer's instruments and new instruments not working once installed. I do not want to spend any of my sailing time trying to trouble shoot another 'computer' system. Do that enough at work.

Any recommendations and experiences would be helpful and appreciated.

Stay well and sail safe,
DJ
S/V Patchez
Solomons, MD
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
since you are going for the whole gamut of instruments - I would recommend pricing out all the various manufactures products - I would not Mix and Match products between vendors - keep it all one vendor - or as you say you could have problems. You mention the EV100 - which is a great example of why one vendor is important - The EV100 can not be upgraded to the latest firmware without a Raymarine chart plotter. Additionally some instruments only respond to specific PGN's - there a LOT of PGN's that overlap information, if you chart plotter speaks french and the autopilot english - your in trouble.

The latest stuff from Raymarine is going full NMEA compatible (including cabling) - Personally I like SeatalkNG because it makes it much easier to not create a split backbone. What ever mfg you go with be sure the cable has enough amperage to handle the LEN (Load Equivalence Number) your going to throw at it.

I have the EV200 (and love it) - it has the option of powering the network. I chose not to do this as there will be low power times where I don't want the power hungry autopilot on - autopilot off - no power to network - nothing works. Also it is best if your power comes in the center of the backbone based on the LEN up and downstream (not physical dimensions), this helps with voltage drops.

In addition to the instruments listed above you should look into something like Noland Engineering RS11 - on our older boats there is a lack of good info on how the motor is running - and the alarms are somewhat lacking - especially if you have hard hearing. With the RS11 - I have RPM, Oil Pressure, Water Temp, Fuel Level - all nicely displayed on either a i70 or my chart plotter (e7D). If Oil Pressure or Water Temp go out of range I get visual and audio alarms on instruments.

Les
 

rfrye1

.
Jun 15, 2004
589
Hunter H376 San Diego
I have same issue on my 1998 H376. Original Raymarine ST60 stuff. Seagull took out my Masthead sending unit so wind gauge isn't working, Rail mount GPS antenna broke. I use a new Garmin chartplotter anyway, so the old GPS is a 3rd backup. I even wonder if I can get replacement parts??
Bob
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,723
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
If you need a wheel pilot, I think you are pretty limited to Raymarine.

My boat has an older Autohelm wheel pilot, a Garmin Chartplotter and a Tac Tic wireless wind instrument. None of it talks to one another

I like the Garmin stuff, and will probably upgrade to the Garmin gWind at some point. Am hoping that if I ever upgrade the Autopilot it will be able to talk to the rest of the instruments on a N2K network.

I just added a new B&G V50 VHF radio and have that talking to my Garmin CP for location info, and the radio feeds AIS info the CP.

Greg
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Greg, SeatalkNg can be your friend if considering an EV100 system. If the Garmin CP accepts N2K data you can make the connections. I took an EV100 AP and now display depth from an old transducer through the Raymarine iTC-5 Convertor. The Raymarine iTC-5 converts analogue transducer signals used in i70, ST70+ and ST70 instrument systems to SeaTalkng. Transducers for Speed/Temperature, Depth, Wind, and Rudder Angle can be connected to the one iTC-5 unit, eliminating the need for multiple ST70 pods.

The analog info is displayed on the p70 pod that was provided with the AP.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Seagull took out my Masthead sending unit so wind gauge
Bob
you can get new vane & cups fairly cheaply at Wallmart if you need the whole arm - its going to cost you the the arm plus a leg.... >$350. The ST60 uses the same mast head unit I purchased last year bundled with the iTC-5 ( John mentions above) and a DTS sensor

Les
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
As far as I am aware, the only wheel drive units still on the market are Raymarine and CPT. CPT is a bit of a throwback, and I don't think it interfaces to anything except people.

I have had a wheel pilot and highly recommend a below-decks drive installation, but yes, it is a lot more expensive. The mount for the drive, alone, could be $1,000, from a competent yard.
 
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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Integration is only the first part of the key. Just because they "talk" doesn't mean they "understand". As Les will probably attest to, the RS-11 is a great interface, but coming from a very early model, the messaging wasn't understandable by the i70, and ultimately required the installation of a chartplotter (abet a small one) to allow this never ending, somewhat annoying, and very unpredictable stream of constant firmware updates, because the brand new device you just took out of the box has old firmware in it and it won't talk to that device, and it took an hour on the phone with the lads to get to that point.
You'll never, ever see that in the marketing literature, and the reps at the show may, but likely won't, tell you these things. So when these folk suggest sticking as close as possible to one manufacturer, that's sage advice.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
One good thing about the RS11 firmware is it is delivered over USB as opposed to over N2K/SeatalkNG from a microSD card on the same vendors chart plotter. As one poster to this thread can attest they had to bring their CPU, AP power unit and P70 to my boat to get the firmware updated to a recent version.
 
Nov 18, 2013
171
Catalina 310 Campbell River
I upgraded my plotter and autopilot this year the plotter is Garmin hooked to EV100 AP with no problems.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Try and update the firmware in the AP to correct the bugs found and fixed since months before you purchased it. Won't happen without a Raymarine chartplotter.

Les
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Leo the issue isn't if it will talk. The issue is what happens when you upgrade the Garmin to the latest firmware, and suddenly it isn't compliant with the Ray stuff, and you go on the Ray website and see that you're 15 revisions back and you have to disassemble 1/2 the network to upgrade it.
This isn't a rant about Ray, if the stuff you have today works ok, then go with it. But if you go out and buy say a wind input, and need an itc5, there are at least three people here who wouldn't take the bet that it would work properly without upgrades to firmware, and in the Ray network, anyway, you have two choices, have a Ray plotter or disassemble the network and take the stuff someplace to get the work done.
That needs to be stated, because it's not stated in the marketing documentation, and it shouldn't be considered a show stopper.
 
Sep 11, 2011
390
Hunter 41AC Bayfield WI, Lake Superior
My boat came with a full complement of raymarine stuff. I upgraded the 3 pack 3 years ago to i50 /i60. I have had quality issues with the wind instrument. It went back to the factory 3 times to get it repaired. It works fine now. My i50 speed stopped working last weekend, and no the wheel is not jammed.. I also have a Garmin chart plotter that is about 8 years old and integrated.....never had any issues. The blended set up works fine generally, but the older st7001 AP has small issues that did not integrated even by staying with raymarine. One example is the back lighting control.....it is randomly controllable.

If I had a clean sheet I would go all Garmin. Garmin owns the light airplane and biz jet market, and is now after the marine market. The stuff just works.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
If I had a clean sheet I would go all Garmin. Garmin owns the light airplane and biz jet market, and is now after the marine market. The stuff just works.
Do you have a below-deck autopilot, or a wheel pilot? I ask because I'm interested in the market, in the way that it seems only Raymarine, among the "big" names, sells a wheel drive unit, as far as I can tell. And, many installations I am aware of using linear drives, use the Raymarine drive, whether they are Raymarine, Simrad/Lowrance/B&G, or Garmin. Garmin seems to only supply hydraulic drive units.

Also, no one has commented on the relative performance of the autopilots. Which is best, for course holding, power consumption, and ease of use (like a temporary jog around a lobster pot, for example)?
 
Apr 21, 2014
184
Hunter 356 Middle River, MD
When I purchased my boat it had the ST60 wind, depth and speed instruments with a disconnected Garmin plotter and no autopilot. Went through that same decision making process of what to install to get to where I wanted my system to be and made the choice to stay with a single vendor.
Installed the EV-100 2 years ago along with the SeaTalk to SeaTalkng cable and all those units interfaced fine. Just last month updated to the Axiom 9 with the SeaTalkng to NMEA 2000 cable and all instruments talked to the system but control of the EV-100 was not present on the Axiom. Applied the latest firmware update to the Axiom and can control the EV-100 through the Axiom as promised, sweet :clap:. Needed to update my VHF as my cockpit ram mike went bad so got a Standard Horizon GX2200 with AIS receive only, that I will network into the NMEA-2000 connection and display on the Axiom. Radar is on the horizon when we get closer to casting off for a longer duration.
I think systems are better able to interface now and talk to one another with a little research and depend more on personal preferences.
Jeff
 
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jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
The point made by a few folks that updating components requires a chart plotter of the same make as the component being updated is a very important one. I have no idea how you'd update components otherwise, save removing them and bringing them to a store; but good luck with that!

Could be wrong, but that's my understanding of it.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
save removing them and bringing them to a store;
You could take to a friend with the appropriate chart plotter - or send it back to the vendor. The first approach only costs a couple of beers. Personally I wouldn't want to remove and reinstall all of that stuff and possibly ruin the gaskets.
Les
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Les, I don't think either method is viable. I guess it's a problem we will never solve, because for the vendors, this is a strong argument for going completely for their system. I wonder if the updates are via standard NMEA sentences? Then there might be a chance to do it via a PC.